Discover the gripping truth behind proper hand exercise as Dr. Terry Zachary, the hand expert, reveals the shocking muscle imbalances caused by traditional methods, his revolutionary Handmaster Plus device, and the battle to get people to prioritize their hand health.
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Show Notes | Transcript“Just like our posture, we do things in front of us all day. If we don’t do something to offset that imbalance, we’re going to have problems.” – Dr. Terry Zachary
Introducing Dr. Terry Zachary – a sports chiropractor with an extraordinary expertise in hand health and performance. Growing up with sports and having observed numerous hand injuries among athletes, he re-evaluated the traditional routines of hand exercises, developing a novel approach that focuses on the equilibrium of hand muscles. His invention, Handmaster Plus, further simplifies this methodology, making it accessible for everyone. His stellar contributions are not only celebrated by athletes but by musicians and professionals who depend heavily on their hands for work. Dr. Zachary’s passion for understanding the body’s design, and his relentless pursuit of improving hand health has truly set a new precedent in the industry.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover the crucial role of frequent hand workouts in maintaining optimal hand functionality and vitality.
- Uncover the merits of the Handmaster Plus tool in promoting effective hand exercises.
- Understand the link between a firm grip and a long, healthy life and why it shouldn’t be ignored.
- Explore how improved blood circulation and lymphatic drainage impacts not just hand, but overall body wellbeing.
Resources:
Connect with Dr. Terry here
Email: info (at) doczac.com
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TRANSCRIPT
Gloria Grace Rand
Namaste. Oh, I am so happy to be with you for another one of our wonderful interviews that we’re going to have today. And I already know it’s going to be wonderful. I’m just telling you right off the bat. I know it. So I want to introduce you to our guest today. His name is Dr. Terry Zachary, and he is the author of Great Hands, Great Life, and he’s also an inventor of a product called Handmaster Plus. And he has been a sports chiropractor. And in that capacity, he broke the code on faulty hand exercise that he witnessed in pro golfers. And so he took these lessons to the wider worlds of sports, music, workplaces, gamers, hobbyists, and smartphones. And that was really what intrigued me about when I met him and why I wanted to have him on the show. So, first off, I want to welcome you, Dr. Terry, to live, love, engage.
Dr. Terry Zachary
Well, thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to speaking to you.
Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, well, I’m very curious. We met during a publicity summit a couple of months ago, and hands are something that are very important to me because I’ve been a musician, I’m a writer. I also, in my youth, well, one of my first jobs was working at McDonald’s, and so I was cooking fries and doing all this type of work, but especially even doing I’ve always been like a typer and working in different jobs. And at one point, I developed carpal tunnel syndrome in my wrists, and so I had to have surgery done on it because for those of you who may not know what that is, it’s a condition, and you could probably explain even better. But basically, my hand would go numb, and sometimes it was so bad that it was actually painful, and that was the part that forced me to get surgery. When it’s just numbness, you can kind of live with it, but when it starts hurting, that’s no fun. I was intrigued to know about what you were up to in the world and how you were helping people, that you noticed the hand exercises and things or how people were using their hands wasn’t helpful, shall we say. So I would love for you to explain to our audience a little bit about what got you really interested, because as a chiropractor, normally, people don’t necessarily think about hands with chiropractor. They think more about the back and the spine and whatnot. So what got you interested in really being focused in as now a hand expert?
Dr. Terry Zachary
Well, Gloria, first of all, that’s about as good of an intro as possible into what I do, because when I first started it, and again, specifically, I had about half my practice was sports chiropractic, and half my practice was family practice. And what had happened was, you know, we had seen so many and I’m in the Vancouver area is where my practice was. So a lot of what we did was focused on hockey players. And I have a background in golf. I played in college, so a lot of professional hockey players, a lot of professional golfers, as the Canadian Tour would come through town, but also, of course, high level and everyday weekend athletes as well. And because of my background and growing up in sports, I always was told, take this thing and squeeze it. It could be spring loaded, it could be a coiled unit, might just be a tennis ball or a racquet ball. And as I got to really started studying the body, which is my passion, it’s one of my base passions in my life is really studying the wonder of the body. And how did this body, how were we designed by our maker, however, designed this tricky pattern, and it’s fascinating. So as I started to study it more, I realized, Wait a minute, I saw all these injuries. And this was specifically in sports when we started out, Gloria. We looked at why are these athletes having so many finger and thumb problems and carpal tunnel problems, by the way, that you already mentioned, and a lot of elbow problems. And as we got into looking at them, we would do a history and ask them what type of exercise they did, if it was a repetitive grip situation like a golf or a tennis or a hockey, et cetera, et cetera. A lot of times they would either be doing nothing or they would be taking something and squeezing it, just like traditionally, most of your viewers and myself, when I was early in my path, thought was the right way to do it. But as I started studying, I said, Why do we do things this way? I could clearly see that the muscles that close the hand are getting overpowering on the muscles that open the hand. And we’re seeing the mechanics of the fingers and thumb and carpal tunnel and wrist and elbow all change because of that. So that was how it all started. I got very interested in it, and I saw great results. I was doing four or five exercises with the hand, which you can imagine, these athletes have other areas to be exercised, and the last thing they want to be doing is four or five exercises. But we started with that, had great results because we were simply following the pattern of the body and starting to learn how the body moves. And just working with that. It wasn’t Terry Zachary saying, well, I think you should do, you know. I think you should put these muscles it’s like, wow, the body’s designed like this. Why don’t we follow those instructions? And I simply exercised these patients’ hand muscles through a full range of motion. Now, I don’t want to go on and on about it, but the thing that keeps people away from this, I believe why somebody didn’t come up with this process earlier is that the hand muscles are very tricky. And if you follow the paths of the hand muscles, all the origins and insertions, if you talk to a hand surgeon, for example, what they would, they would just talk in circles. It’s so intricate, and I think it scares people away. So I would approach it that you have nine muscles that close your hand that are generally located on the front of your fingers and thumbs and hands and wrists and carpal tunnels and elbow. And then you have nine muscles that open the hand, which are on the back of all of those same structures. So it made sense to me to exercise them all in balance. And once we did, the results were just clear as day, and that’s what got me interested in it. I realized this is being done wrong. I learned wrong before I was educated. And then, because I work with athletes and I’d always been so interested in sports, I saw it clear as day, and that’s what got me interested.
Gloria Grace Rand
Wow. And you’re right, because now that I think back to it, I remember, I think when I was probably first going to a doctor, they would recommend that you get, like, one of these little kind of squishy balls and just squeeze it periodically, and that was supposed to help. So could you just give an example of maybe one exercise that you would do instead of doing that? Do you still recommend that they do that? But if maybe you do some other things in addition to…
Dr. Terry Zachary
Yeah, excellent question. So the viewers and this is probably a new concept to most that are listening, just to give it some framework, it’s very similar to posture. Your hand muscles actually work very similar to posture. So if I saw somebody with , if anybody saw somebody with poor posture, the last thing we would tell them to do is slouch more. Does that make sense? And that’s really the concept to go with. So if you were working your example, you’re working in McDonald’s, you’re using your hands, you’re gripping, you’re also a musician, you’re also writing. Everything is an inflection situation. So just like our posture, we do things in front of us all day. If we don’t do something to offset that imbalance, we’re going to have problems with our spine and our ribs and our breathing and our organs, et cetera. It’s the same thing that we want to do. We want to strengthen the muscles that open and spread. So, yeah, there’s so many ways to look at this. And we designed the Handmaster Plus so you could do literally, instead of four or five exercises, you close against a ball, you open and spread against the cord. And we want to do it as one continuous exercise. But for your readers, for your viewers that might not have a Handmaster Plus sitting right there beside them, we used to use an elastic band for this, so something that would come off your vegetables for example, and you just even taking that and wrap it around the back of your fingers and opening and spreading. Now, the problem you’ll eventually deal with, and myself being really picky about how the body’s trained, is that once the hand gets open a certain amount, that elastic band is going to slip off. So we don’t really train in full range of motion, but it beats the heck out of what we were doing, which is nothing. So even just taking the hand with an elastic band, opening and spreading as wide as you can, or once the elastic band is off, just really taking your hand and opening and holding it, open it wide, use those muscles and close open wide and use those muscles to close. The idea is we have to add tone to the hand opening and spreading muscles.
Gloria Grace Rand
And I got to tell you, I’m just doing it while I’m hearing you talk about it. I’m like doing it on my lap right now. And it’s like it feels good. I mean, it feels good to stretch it, to stretch it out and to have the fingers extended. And I think that’s something I’m going to be probably doing a little bit more often, because I do I spend a lot of time typing on the keyboard, and so it does get tiring. So I think that’s a good thing.
Dr. Terry Zachary
Gloria, I think that’s also a really important point. It’s a hard thing to really for some people to grasp, but the body knows. So you take your hand through a full range of motion, which is a natural range of motion to you. Now, to your mind, you might think, well, I’m still gripping things. I got a grip, grip, grip. But your body knows if you make that little change in your life and just take your hand through a full natural range of motion, that’s the body’s motion, and it will give an intuitive signal to some extent that that feels really good, and there’ll be some degree of endorphin there’s, some degree of a change. You’ll be able to feel that. And that’s because we’ve simply taken the body through a regular range of a natural range of motion that it is designed to go through. And that’s how we keep the body healthy.
Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is natural because in the morning, I find I’m always stretching in bed before I get out because it’s like you’ve been sleeping in maybe one position all night, and it’s like and the body’s like, okay, I need to open up and stretch a little bit before I can start the day, so why not with the hands as well? That is so cool. So tell me a little bit about as you were maybe coming up with this and trying to maybe even come up with a product, because you mentioned you invented something to help people with. What was like, maybe one or two of the maybe challenges that you faced when you were going through that process?
Dr. Terry Zachary
I think the biggest challenge is having that knowledge that. One of the parts of the story I’ve left out is that there was a point where I was really moved. I developed my golf game to an a point where I was very competitive in college. I was in practice full time, and I actually decided I was competing locally on the side and doing very well. I actually took some time off and traveled on mini tours. And with the dream of making the PGA Tour, I never did, by the way. But again, great things happened instead.
Gloria Grace Rand
That’s right.
Dr. Terry Zachary
So the first thing I would say is the challenge was I saw all these professional golfers that would come to me once they knew my background, and they would ask me, I’m having this little problem with my elbow or my wrist, a lot of wrist problems or carpal tunnel problems. So they would pick my brain about it. And then I would still have those four or five exercises that I had in practice and everybody’s traveling. I didn’t want to take a lot of time from my own practice of golf. It was hard to take an hour and show them these exercises, but the main concern was they weren’t going to probably remember the exercises, and they likely weren’t going to do them. So I had this dilemma that I knew all these players were going through, and I had this need to solve it. Like, how do I get these people to actually do it? Because I know if I give them four or five exercises, they’re likely not going to follow through. And especially once they’re out of pain, they probably won’t follow through and train properly. So it’s one of those situations where I’m guessing you’ve run into a lot. One night I’m laying down, going, how can I solve this problem? And three in the morning, Eureka! Put a problem out there, not even asking for an answer, really. And all of a, you know, three in the morning, I’m on tour somewhere in the Dakotas, I believe. And if, you know, I thought if there was an elastic, we put right through that ball. We don’t lose the motion of closing, and we gain the motion of opening with proper resistances, because all the resistance should come from the middle. And got up and just started making some drawings. And then I think the next… I will add one more thing without going on about this, is that before that day, one of the people that I was traveling with had a really bad tennis elbow problem. And he had two kids, two children at home. He’d given up kind of the safety of his career, and he couldn’t even lift a cup of coffee. So in mini tours, you have to play and do well to make any money. And I remember thinking, I’ve just really got to help this guy, particularly, it’s getting to the point where I have to do something about this. And that’s when it came to me. And I started drawing things up, made a rough prototype and then got it to him in a short time and solved his problem. And I said, this is something really important, we can help people easily with proper mechanics.
Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, I love when you’re able to come up with a solution, when you’ve got faced with a problem and that you can finally come up with the idea for it. And that’s something that a lot of entrepreneurs, that when they go into business, either they have that idea or maybe they just know they want to do something to help, but they’re not quite sure what it is. So it’s fortunate that you were able to come up with that. What gets you excited about the work that you’re doing?
Dr. Terry Zachary
Exactly what you just said. Gloria, I love helping people. I love the two things that I believe move us and is our main payment for anything is using our talents. I’m very passionate about sports and mechanics and how do we do things the proper way. And following that, I just got interested in the body and wow, how does the body work to… What do you have to do with the body to make it position itself to perform its best? And then using that curiosity, I really became educated in my pursuits. And then at the same time, now I can give back in a way that helps many people. And we started with golf, Gloria, so you saw these problems in golf and the next thing you know we’re going into as I’m done with my PGA Tour career, and I know that’s not going to happen. We saw the same things in all grip sports, in all music, in the workplace and with gamers. That was in the late nineties. And since then it’s just taken me everywhere to meet a bunch of different people, even elite. I’m a music fan, I’m not a musician, I’m a wannabe guitar player. Not very good yet, but we’ve met some like we’ve worked with Hall of Fame bands now, Country Music Hall of Fame, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It’s thrilling. And when you speak with these people, they’re very uneducated about this, as is most people about grip and hand exercise. So we can help them perform better. We can help anybody. Young people that are getting into whatever they’re doing with their grip or their hands, we can make them perform better from day one. And then obviously we can prevent injuries in the future. And if somebody is going through an injury or has an old injury, we can help them through that. And it’s in a way where I don’t have to be there. I can explain this. It’s an easy exercise and I know that people are doing it properly because you can’t really mess up the exercise. It’s a long exercise, but the serving people with something that is just my passion has just been like I don’t know, it’s just been like a yellow brick road for me type of thing.
Gloria Grace Rand
Well, I’m so glad you did. And as you were talking, I’m just thinking about how we take our hands for granted. There’s all types of different videos and exercise programs and they talk about exercising your whole body or working on your hips or working on your stomach and what have you. But we don’t really think about hands and we use these every day. We brush our hair, we brush our teeth, we eat. And then for people who are actively using their hands in some sort of work, there’s all kinds of, as you mentioned, just a few places with gamers and things like that. But I’m thinking even people on like an assembly line, people who are doing that type of work. My dad used to work for a car company. So there’s people all over the world who are using their hands in some capacity. And it’s so odd, now that I think about it, that it’s like, why aren’t we paying more attention to using our hands properly so that they will last us? And I’m also thinking about my mom who had arthritis and her hands were so painful, I used to have to help her massage them and things like that. I know there’s other reasons why people get arthritis, but perhaps if she’d been doing, exercising her hands all along, maybe it would have made it a little bit easier. She might have still had it, but maybe the pain wouldn’t have been as excruciating, I don’t know. What do you think?
Dr. Terry Zachary
Well, no, your point there is well taken because it’s even getting into my history. I had no intention of coming out of practice and running around the world in all these different markets and talking about hands. I had no intention of it until you get into it a little bit and even you and I speak to it for one time and you get to see the diversity of what we’re dealing with. The other thing now, you bring in your mum’s arthritis and a lot of the health of the hands, and mostly we’re talking about the mechanics. You want your hand muscles strong so that the muscles that open and close are balanced and that your grip is working properly. But we haven’t spoken even about blood flow and lymph drainage and it’s something that’s a really big deal. There’s lots of studies even showing that hand strength is directly correlated with life longevity. There’s many studies about that. It’s probably too long to speak about here, but keeping your hands active, even in your mum’s situation, what happens is when we’re exercising, let’s say any area of the body through a full range of motion. Now the body knows intuitively, okay, Gloria’s mum’s using her hands now, we better get more blood flow, which is all your oxygen and your nutrients out to the sites of the hands and especially if it’s full range of motion. Now, we’ve had studies done in our product where the thermography shows much, twice as much blood flow to the extremity when you’re doing full range of motion as when you did just hand closing. So if we do full range of motion for the hands, you get maximum blood flow, which means all your nutrients and oxygen out there and you’ll stimulate maximum Lymph and venous drainage which gets all the waste products and toxins and stuff out of that area, which is definitely how you keep your body healthy. And most people, again, are using a small range of motion of their joints. Well, if I’m putting pressure on a small range of motion of my joint for years and years and years, like a knitter is an example, small range of motion for years and years and pretty soon there’s wear and tear in those joints. It’s not that something’s wrong with the body, it’s that the body can’t react to the misunderstanding of how we’re treating it and training it. So absolutely, people use their hands should be exercising through a full range of motion so that you perform well and you prevent injury and you keep those joints and all the tissues healthy. And it’s a lot to say just by closing and open your hand with resistance, but so much good comes out of it. It’s very complete.
Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, I can see that and I appreciate you sharing that information. And it’s funny, I’m also thinking that I know you’ve been focused on the hand for all these years, but I wonder maybe should we be talking about the feet, too, because I feel it’s the same principle. Even though we don’t necessarily use our feet the way necessarily we use our hands, but we do use it for walking every day.
Dr. Terry Zachary
Actually. It’s very similar and we don’t want to give anything away about what our company is doing. But we certainly have a concept in mind. It takes a while to bring to test it and make sure it works properly. But just even to the viewers to be interested about that is that the feet are a little bit different because they’re weight bearing, but they’re also extremely passive relative to how they’re designed because we’ve got these rubber shoes that do all the gripping. And normally if we’re walking out in the dirt or the sand or bare feet, our feet would be doing some degree of gripping as we walk. And so this passiveness that we’ve designed ourself into does cause problems. And we’d certainly like to help that in the future. But we’re not there yet with
Gloria Grace Rand
cool. All right. But something to watch out for. So that’s good.
Dr. Terry Zachary
Absolutely.
Gloria Grace Rand
So cool. All right. I’m glad I brought it up. So kind of teasing it out there for people to stay tuned. What is a commonly held belief, maybe about health in general or about the hands inparticularly, particular that you passionately disagree with?
Dr. Terry Zachary
What a great question. I think that healing comes from outside. I passionately disagree with that. And that we don’t and we haven’t been supplied by nature with what it takes to stay healthy. The reason I say that is that our body knows how to heal. We just talked about your even your I don’t want to gang up on your mum here today,
Gloria Grace Rand
It’s ok. She’s passed.
Dr. Terry Zachary
But even in that situation yeah, well, the concept of learning about those, about what people went through in their experiences, we go through our problems and that’s okay as long as we learn from them. And in that situation, your body knows how to heal. If we eat properly and we have nutrients and we breathe properly and we have oxygen and we’re trying to keep, let’s say, for example, specifically the hands and the wrists and the carpal tunnels and the elbows healthy, well, if we exercise that properly, the body intuitively knows, now we’re using that area. Let’s bring oxygen, nutrients, and let’s make that happen. Let’s get all the end products away and that’s how we keep it healthy. But we have to know we have control of it based on understanding the design of the body. And once we understand the design of the body, it knows what it’s doing. There’s a saying that one of the person people I follow in healthcare for a long time says is that the body needs no help, just no interference. And so, meaning that, let’s learn what the body’s telling us about how it wants to be taken care of and then let’s not interfere by putting crappy food into us or something, or like smoking and getting bad. We’re not getting great oxygen to keep healthy with, et cetera. Or let’s not repetitively grip all the time and not realize we’re creating an imbalance because that’s not the hands breaking down. That’s our misunderstanding of how the hands work that’s being applied improperly. So we want to look at how the body is designed and then not interfere. Help it.
Gloria Grace Rand
Very good. What are you curious about right now?
Dr. Terry Zachary
What am I curious about? I’m curious about almost everything. I’m curious about, that’s an interesting question because what I’m really curious about is I’m doing work with the hands. And once I remove this misunderstanding of just the hands, well, now, how is the world going to change? They can use and again, this is not a sell job, but if you’re using when we put people in our product, their life changes when they’ve had hand problems or when they’ve had performance problems or something like this, and next thing you know, they just do these things. The hand muscles get imbalanced, the blood flow and lymph drainage gets reestablished and boom. Look at their life changes. And now maybe something that they’re pursuing, they pursue it easier maybe they do better. Maybe they make a difference in this world and maybe they become a professional golfer, an entertainer, make a difference in music. I think what I’m curious about, hadn’t really thought about this, but I’m curious about what if we understood our lives a little? What if we understood our lives better? What if we didn’t have all these kind of negative concepts of ourselves that are limiting what our lives could do? What I’m doing is improving hands on all the related areas because the hands are tricky and all of a sudden we could change that. Well, what if we all realized our path? I have a path that brought me to help this area of the world. Well, what if somebody could help people with negative thoughts? My wife is a counselor, actually. And so to come to my understanding of our life, where I’m saying we’re all these miraculous entities and we just got to follow our path and we’re going to be of service to the world, we’ll be provided for it, et cetera, et cetera. To have some child saying I’m not good enough or I’m a loser or I’m not pretty or all this stuff, it just is such a misunderstanding to me. So what if we could all see that we’re here for our special path and our special purpose and they went out in the world and not just help the hands or whatever their purpose is and that all added up into some kind of totality well, what would that be like? That’s what I’m curious about. What if we really did start to learn this miraculousness of ourselves and this life and all that stuff? Where could we go from there?
Gloria Grace Rand
I’m hoping that more and more of us will continue to do that. I do talk with a lot of different people, I think, who are in the position of helping others do that. And that’s part of what I do in my business as well. And I think we have such potential that we’ve barely tapped into and it could be just wonderful, some things that we could create if we get out of our own way. And I think that’s kind of the main thing. A lot of times we just are in our own way.
Dr. Terry Zachary
It’s exactly true. And just back to that saying about the body needs no help or life needs no help, it just needs no interference. And I agree with you wholeheartedly and I have listened to your podcast and you do a great job with that. And I think we need to all come to the point, even for our own happiness and purpose and stuff, we come selfishly to come to this and our life gets better. But then once we start helping others, that’s peace and everything’s working properly when that happens.
Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything else that I should have asked you about or any other last words of wisdom that you’d like to share with our audience to know today?
Dr. Terry Zachary
We covered stuff, Gloria. It’s interesting that it’s know, far deeper and very exciting to me as well. I think the one thing I’d like to leave people with too, is if anybody in your audience is more into the performance side of, they’re an athlete or a musician like yourself, we do with the product. We’ve talked about basically our main exercise, where you put the product on, you basically close against the ball, you open and spread against the cord. You get all 18 muscles in balance. So that’s really difficult to misunderstand. If you can’t remember to close your hands and open your hands, you got bigger problems than hand problems. But all joking aside, we do have an exercise for people that are more performance based. We have several exercises, but those main two, somebody that’s working on strengthening their grip, strengthening imbalance or their hand speed or their range of motion, there’s an exercise called the figure eight exercise with handmaster plus. And it to me, is what changed our performance when we’re helping people perform for athletes or musicians, et cetera, et cetera. Gamers, you talked about gamers, people in the workplace, like dental hygienists come to mind, but lots, assembly line, et cetera, et cetera. Anybody that uses their hands, the figure eight exercise, if they look it up, strengthens the nine muscles that close and the nine muscles that open. But it also strengthens the nine muscles of the wrist and forearm that position your hand. So that’s a full grip exercises through full range of motion. And we’ve seen amazing stuff happen in people’s performance with that. So I’d like to add that exercise so we don’t forget about it. The main hand open, hand closed exercise is for most people, but performance people, the figure eight exercises we brought out in the last couple of years, it’s just fantastic.
Gloria Grace Rand
Awesome. If someone listening and or watching on YouTube today would like to get more information about that, learn how they can actually do that exercise in particular, where’s the best place for people to reach out to you?
Dr. Terry Zachary
Yeah, they can go to Handmasterplus.com. That’ll show people where they can get it. We’re in a lot of the pharmacies now in the States. Or they can get it online. We do sell internationally as well, so they can find it there and the exercises are there. If anybody has questions as well, that’s what I’m here for, to educate people. I love doing it. Our email is info@doczac.com it’s doc zac.com and they can feel free to ask me questions about anything we’ve talked about today, and I can definitely steer them the right way. We’ve spent a lot of time on this subject in the past 15 years, so I don’t think they’ll get much deeper advice than from me.
Gloria Grace Rand
All right, excellent. Well, thank you so much, because this has been enlightening for me, and I really appreciate it. And I think you’re doing wonderful good work in the world, helping us to be able to keep these hands working well. Because we’re going to have these hands hopefully rest of our lives, and we need to be able to use them. So I appreciate so much for being with us and sharing your advice with everyone.
Dr. Terry Zachary
Well, thank you so much for having me and I really enjoy what you’re doing and keep it up because this is what we’re supposed to do is help people and use our expertise and help people. And you’re doing really wonderfully and I enjoyed being here.
Gloria Grace Rand
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. And I do want to also thank all of you for watching and for listening on your favorite podcast platform. And I encourage you to share this episode with a friend if you got some value out of it and make sure you’re subscribed on wherever you listen to this podcast. And I think that’s going to do it for this edition today. So until next time, as always, I encourage you to go out and live fully, love deeply, and engage authentically.
