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Releasing Emotional & Physical Weight with Dr Sondra Joyce

Podchaser - Live. Love. Engage. Podcast: Inspiration | Spiritual Awakening | Happiness | Success | Life

Joining us for this episode, which was recorded live on Facebook, is Dr. Sondra Joyce, a multi-talented woman who has been a realtor for 21 years and is a property manager for a health and healing complex. She also has 40 years experience as a trained therapist, with degrees in social work, psychology, coaching and counseling. Sondra is also an author, mastermind facilitator and a leader of women’s retreats. Her passion is to help you make the rest of your life the best of your life.

On this episode of the Live. Love. Engage. podcast:

  • Why Sondra prefers coaching to therapy now
  • What happened when a friend confronted Sondra about her health
  • Why women find it difficult to lose weight after menopause
  • What is emotional weight, and how it ties into physical weight
  • What Sondra is excited about now
  • Why her workshop is called “Bury your weight in the sand”

Connect with Sondra
Dr Sondra’s website:

Bury Your Weight in the Sand:


Quick Links:

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Live. Love. Engage. Podcast: Inspiration | Spiritual Awakening | Happiness | Success | Life


Gloria Grace Rand 0:00
You’re listening to the live love engage podcast. This episode which was previously recorded live on Facebook. We’re talking about how to make the rest of your life, the best of your life. Stay tuned. Welcome to live love, engage the podcast where we share practical advice from a spiritual perspective on how to create a life and business with more impact, influence and income. I’m your host, Gloria grace Rand, the insightful copywriter and founder of the love method. My mission is to help you stop doubting yourself. So you can live fully love deeply and engage authentically.

Namaste, and welcome to live love, engage. I am Gloria grace Rand, and delighted to be with you today. And in fact, I have a guest who I’m going to add into our show right now her name is Dr. Sondra Joyce, and I’m going to tell you all about her in a second. But first, welcome Sondra to live love, engage. Thank you so much. Well, I am delighted to have this woman with us today because she is somebody that we actually met through a mastermind program several years ago. And she’s just a powerhouse of wisdom and skills. And I’m gonna I’m gonna tell you a little bit about her right now. So I’ll see if she turns red from blushing. So it’d be. So Dr. Sondra Joyce is actually has been a realtor for the last 21 years. She’s currently with EXP realty in southwest Colorado. She’s a property manager for a health and healing complex. And if that’s not enough, she has 40 years of experience as a therapist with a bachelor’s degree in social work masters in psychology, and doctorate and coaching and counseling. And as if that’s not enough, she was the first massage therapist in Fort Collins, Colorado opened for spa there and operated it for 17 years. She’s also an author, mastermind facilitator and has lead retreats in Mexico for women. And, you know, that’s I’m sure also just sort of scratching the surface. So I want to see if I can figure out how to put you this year to just tell our audience a little bit more about you. And yeah, so give a little bit more insight into who is Dr. Sondra Joyce. Oh, okay. Gloria,

Dr Sondra Joyce 2:54
thank you so much. And yeah, I was thinking about this, um, you need Yep, there we go. There we go. I think, you know, it’s interesting, that I am passionate about learning. So I’m always I’ve taken, I’ve taken so many classes, I’ve gotten so many degrees. It’s just like, it’s a passion of mine to learn. So I have a lot of knowledge base, for sure. But I guess what I would say more than anything about me is the number one thing is that I’ve been passionate about transformation, and personal growth, since I was a very, very young person. So that is probably my core, regardless of degrees or whatever. And the second thing is, is because of that passion. I am super passionate about helping other people. And it’s it’s turned out to be more women certainly love men, but it seems like my tribe is been to really help women grow and transform in their own lives, I get a lot of juice and joy out of seeing somebody being in one state and then moving, you know, to a different place in their lives that that helps them. And the third thing I would say is that I’m a total Renegade. And I don’t know why that is, but I’m always on the leading edge of new thoughts and new what new beginnings and now there’s many, many examples I could share, but it seems like I somehow divinely get inspired by something like say, here’s a simple example Fung Shui. Before it was ever a household word, I learned about it from a French architect and studied it like in the 80s and it’s been a part of what I’ve done in helping people with homes. It’s in the back of my mind. All the time. I’ve done a lot of work with it, but it just seems like for some reason, my Spirit craves and thrives on new thought, and new beginning and when you connect that with the, you know, the this the passion for transformation within and with other people. It’s a fun life. I wouldn’t say,

Gloria Grace Rand 5:18
well, that’s cool. So, um, what, what actually got you interested in becoming a coach? Was it that ability to do to create transformation for people? I mean, was there something just Have you always felt that way like even as a kid?

Dr Sondra Joyce 5:34
Well, I think, you know, my therapy background. And again, this was very in the, in the time that I did my schooling, the training was very, I don’t know what you would say, it was old school, maybe, you know. And so of course, I learned all the different therapeutic techniques studied, all the main therapists, you know, did young and dream work did did all kinds of different things. And it was all really helpful, but a lot of it was about going into your past, and then looking at how to how to heal old wounds. And when I first got interested in coaching, what was so delightful to me is that it’s a little bit of a different approach, at least for me, it’s like, Where are you now? What’s happening now? And where do you want to go? And how can I help you get there, it’s a little bit of a different take on assisting people, it doesn’t mean that there might not be something that surfaces from the past that needs healing, right? But it’s, it’s a different, it’s a different take on life. And I like, I really, like helping people move forward. And, and, and not taking, you know, therapy can take years. And coaching can take, you know, you can do three 710 20 sessions or whatever. But I mean, it’s really about it’s the excitement of moving toward towards something. And seeing results happen in a quicker way than I would say therapy would be.

Gloria Grace Rand 7:11
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s perfect, perfect answer. I, and I understand it completely. Yeah, cuz I know, for me, I would rather have something, you know, an issue be solved. You know, if it can be done in, you know, weeks or months, as opposed to, you know, spending 20 years on the couch? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Now, I know, you know, in life, we all face, you know, different challenges. So, shall we say, are obstacles and things like that? So? What obstacles Have you found that actually maybe turned out to become maybe your greatest opportunity?

Dr Sondra Joyce 7:53
Well, I’m, just to backtrack just a little bit before I answered that. Just in the last, I’d say, five or 10 years, I’ve become really passionately interested in women in midlife, and just what those challenges and joys are. And so I feel that that once a woman has, you know, gone through menopause, and is not necessarily in that baby stage of nurturing in that way, right? There is a whole nother world that opens up. And I’m so excited about that world, because it’s a world that where there’s there can be a lot of joy, and there can be a lot of transformation, but there also can be some really difficult times. And so for me, that you’re asking me what my obstacle was, is, I started letting things that normally, you know, I’m a really joyful person, and I just, but for whatever reason, there were things like my mom passing away and, you know, going through midlife and you know, realizing that there’s body changes, and, you know, My son, you know, moving on to his own life, and we’re extraordinarily close, which I’m thankful for. But you know what I mean, it still doesn’t mean that there aren’t issues. So, so there, those are just a few of the things that were going on with me. There’s many, many more, but I think the thing that I find that I decided that helped me was I said, Okay, I am 100% responsible for my life. I am 100% responsible for my health. I’m 100% 100% responsible for my happiness. And, you know, I think taking that stance and really believing it, I mean, we’ve always heard that, like, be responsible. But you know, what does it mean? I mean, there’s no blame anymore. You know, I mean, if you really are in that space, you can’t be pointing a finger at anybody else. It really is your life. And your decision to do what you’re going to do. And that led me to taking better care of myself, I had let a lot of things go that were, you know, I shouldn’t have, but I did. And I just decided that right now, you know, my health, and my happiness, and my transformation is most important thing to me. And I’m gonna do whatever it takes to create that energy for myself, and anybody else who wants to come on the journey with me.

Gloria Grace Rand 10:38
I love that, um, unfortunately, your your internet was freezing up there a little bit. So we kind of lost a few words here and there, but it’s working again. So hopefully, it’s gonna behave itself. Now, because I’m not sure if we’ve lost this in the in the translation, but I know that you in taking care of your health, one of the things you you did was you you actually shed a few pounds recently, like or over the, a certain amount of time, and which is, you know, something that I would like to do, I’ve sort of been going the other way. I was doing really well last year, and now kind of been not going yet going the wrong way again. So can you shed a little bit about what, you know, is that part of that getting healthy that you’re doing?

Dr Sondra Joyce 11:26
Absolutely. What happened for me, is that, you know, mostly in my life, I mean, everybody has something that people say about them, you know, I mean, for you, it’s your, you know, you exude love, I would say that’s what I would say about you. And for me, people always used to tell me how radium I was that I had this really radiant presence. And so what ended up happening for me is that I was with a girlfriend of mine. And we took a picture of us, which is on my website, do you want to go look at it. And I looked at myself. And I was like, wow, that isn’t me. That’s not my spark that isn’t the me that I know. And she challenged me and she said, You know, I’m worried I am worried about you. And I would say if anybody’s worried about a friend or a family member, take that stance that she did with me, she said I’m worried about you. You know, I’m worried about your health. I’m worried that you’re overweight, I’m worried that you’re not exercising like you used to, I’m worried that you’re gonna leave your your son needs you. But are you just you know, what, what is the next 2030 years is going to be like for you in your life, if you don’t take care of yourself? Well, it was really a sobering moment for me. And I just said, wow, you know, you’re right. And I think it’s so easy just to, um, it’s easy to kind of put us like, not get on the scale, easy to not, you know, really look at yourself in the mirror, it’s easy to just do to do to do go along with life. And then when somebody that loves you, stops you and says, you know, I’m concerned. So, you know, as soon as I could after that, I mean, it was October of 2020. I, I made a decision that I needed to get for me, I needed to get out of my environment, because I there’s just too many, I think for most of us, it’s good to get away, at least for a while. Because there’s so many triggers, there’s so many things that are just in your environment that you act on without even thinking. So for me, I went away and I did like a three week retreat, I did a cleanse I did you know colon cleanse, and you know, just kind of and started really, you know, doing a lot of things on a regular basis and was 100% committed. That’s the other thing I think was that not only I just became honest with myself, I said you’re gonna make this happen. You have to be 100% committed to this. And so it was a lot of different things. I mean, they’re all things that we know about journaling and you know, you know what, you know, writing down what you eat and weighing yourself every day and exercising and having moments of joy I used to play Tina Turner every morning or something fun you know, just to get myself my body moving. But um, you know, so I think what happened was I just decided I needed to lose not a little bit of weight. No, I did not get on the scale. I took a scale with me to Mexico and I did not get on the scale till I got there and guess what I needed to lose 40 pounds out and I was like holy moly. That’s give me a thing. I can actually see what I mean. And that isn’t, I mean, I could still lose more weight. Absolutely. I’m not, I’m not where I was in, you know, 20 years ago. But that was weight that was weighing me down and causing high blood pressure, high cholesterol, all kinds of physical things. And it was like it was a life or death thing like like that. The Mary Oliver poem. When she says, You know, I did something like I did. Whatever I needed to do, I saved the only life I could save, which was my life. I really feel that. And I don’t mean to be melodramatic, but I really feel that I was going towards a death spiral. And I had to, like, shift it. shift it big time. Yeah. And so that’s what I did. And, and because and so I did, I, I, I changed my life. I, I charted my way, I did all kinds of different things. I did research, I did this, I did that. Now, I’m not a nutritionist. I’m not a weight loss expert. I’m not saying that I’m any of those things. I am just somebody who made a decision that I needed to do this did a bunch of research and created a program that that worked for me, and might work for other people.

Gloria Grace Rand 16:27
Yeah, that’s awesome. And, you know, it is it’s interesting, sometimes how we do sort of either fool ourselves, or we don’t really pay attention. Because I, I had that awakening, let’s see, this is probably 15 years ago. Now, I think where my husband’s work had was suggesting that we sign up at the YMCA. And so I went there. And, and at the time, I think we I think we were even watching The Biggest Loser on TV and my daughter, or something, but, but I went and I went to get, you know, like, Okay, I’m gonna start working out and went and stepped on the scale there. And I was shocked. I mean, I have weighed was the most I’d ever weighed in my entire life. In fact, I’ll just go out and say I was almost 200 pounds. And for being someone who was only five foot three, that’s a lot of weight. And I didn’t realize it, I did not realize I’d put that much on. And I probably got to work on doing just what you said, you know, it’s like, okay, let’s start eating better and exercising.

Dr Sondra Joyce 17:34
Right. And the thing I think the thing is, is that we can we can, we can fool ourselves, because we’re, we’re really passionate, amazing human beings, women, we have a lot of great things going for us, but to really look at that one aspect and realize that it’s time to lose that weight is really important. But, you know, to me, that it isn’t just about the weight, because the weight is there for a reason. Yeah. So you know, and people could just say, well, you ate too much. Well, I’ve talked to a lot of people, and they’re not eating that much, but they still. And so you know, it’s it’s really it’s a much deeper, it’s much deeper than calories in and exercising, although that’s a part of it. And Right, right, it’s really into that to think that I mean, yeah, absolutely. You know, especially before menopause, that works really well. Hormones come into balance. After that. There’s other things that come in that come into play that make it a little bit more difficult to just do that. But the thing is, is that your your weight, like when I got when I got home, I grabbed 220 pound weights, and those were big, and I put them on my hips, and I walked around, I walked around with that weight, and I felt what it was like for my body to carry those 40 pounds. And then I put them down, and I put them on top of my shoulders, I put them up there. And I walked around like that. And that’s the that’s what I would say was the emotional weight what was weighing me down. So like, instead of being a free spirit being, you know, just, you know, just all the joy that I have to give into this world. My shoulders were heavy. And I was being weighed down by emotions and everybody has their own. But I think it’s both of them. And if you just focus on one, and not both, you know, it’s not going to really be as beneficial but the the emotional weight is like, what is weighing you down? What’s keeping you up at night? You know, Are you stressed out about money? Are you stressed out about your relationship, your child, your job, your whatever it is, whatever’s keeping you up at night, in the stories that you’re telling and maybe the old energy that’s playing in In your mind, those are the things that along with losing physical weight, losing emotional weight along with that, and in creating something that connects both of those is something that I think will then help women, too. Really have a transformation. That’s what it’s all about, right? I mean, I don’t have any idea what somebody’s body’s supposed to look like, I think bodies are beautiful. I think we’re changing our ideas about bodies all the time. Because not everybody needs to be skinny, it’s not that everybody needs to be a certain way. Everybody’s beautiful. So it isn’t, it isn’t a one size fits all, like, okay, we have to like, you know, do this in order to be happy and healthy. We don’t everybody’s different. But there is like, like, sort of a figure eight, like an infinity circle. And it goes like, Okay, so, you know, this is your right here, and this is what you’re holding on to here. And then the cross ways in the middle, is the place where you can start releasing. And so I don’t, I don’t think that any woman should feel like there’s a certain weight that they have to be or they can’t be happy or healthy or that they you know, I don’t believe in any of that. I think every person needs to decide for themselves what’s most important, but high blood pressure, high cholesterol, that’s what I was dealing with. And I want to I want to be healthy. I want to live I want. Exactly.

Gloria Grace Rand 21:35
Yeah, absolutely. And and and you’re right, because I think it doesn’t necessarily have to be the, you know, the number on the scale, it is more about health. And I and I do think that you’re right in talking about really, I think, in fact, it’s gonna be a lot easier for you to shed the physical pounds off your body once you do get rid of that emotional weight. Yeah, once you feel that,

Dr Sondra Joyce 22:00
yeah, there they go. They work hand in hand. And that’s, that’s what I’ve been, you know, having some fun with is, is just play. I mean, you know, I took me, it was hard, I’m not gonna say it wasn’t hard to lose that way. And it took a lot of perseverance, and 100% accountability and having a team of people that I was accountable to and all of that. So it took a lot of that, to do that. And 100%, like, if I said, I was going to get up at 630 in the morning and walk the beach, I was going to do that there wasn’t a day that I was going to if I was doing yoga, I was doing yoga, I mean, so there was all of that. In between that I think what happens when you start doing those kinds of things, you you, you create an internal muscle, sort of like a spiritual muscle along your physical muscle. And that spiritual muscle just says, I’m gonna do whatever it takes, I’m gonna do whatever it takes to be that healthy, happy person that I want to be whatever it takes. And so that spiritual muscle also gets really down, you know, it gets stronger inside of us. And then that’s how we are able to let go of things that no longer serve us and that tend to get piled on in the mid life. Place.

Gloria Grace Rand 23:17
Right? Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I’m sure with this a little bit about what what is exciting for you right now. What what are you working on that Scott, you really jazzed up?

Dr Sondra Joyce 23:30
Well, I’m, uh, I’ve always been somebody who has been a business person, and had some kind of business like right now real estate is one but I’ve also always had something that I felt was jazzy and fun for me that had more to do with transformation. So I’ve always had both of those things. And the transformational part for me right now is after being in this experience, and you know, doing what I did, I decided that I needed to share with other people so I created a workshop called bury your weight in the sand. I love that title. mean that what is what is that all about? Well, so what happened was when I first got to I was in Tocones Mexico when I first got there, you know, I have to say, you know, and I interviewed somebody, I have an interview someday I’ll share on Facebook or whatever, but this woman said, you know, you were really sad when you first came here. I mean, I was dealing with a lot. And so um, but I was walking on the beach and what I did is I love shells. I’ve always loved the beach. Even though I’m in landlocked Colorado, I’m a big person. And so what I did was I would gather these little shells might bring them home and I washed them and put them in the sun and I had a little plate, you know, outside where I had these shells. And then I had this chart that I created for myself, and I had Weight every half a pound. So you know, I’d have all the weight on the side. And then I would draw these little lines when I would lose the weight. And when I would lose a pound, I would take one of the shells with me. And on my morning walk, I would take it down to the beach. And I would do this little ceremony with that, because there was a reason why I had that pound. Okay, so you know, it wasn’t just, we didn’t just land on me. So yeah, right. So I said, Thank you, you know, I said, Thank you, thank you for your service. And I love you, but I’m letting you go. And so I would bury the shell in the sand close to the ocean, where in the huge waves there. I mean, there’s Yeah, really huge and beautiful. And I just said, okay, and I’m letting you go. And I’m, you know, people say I lose weight, and they said, I lost you, and I’m not gonna find you. I lost you, and I’m not going to find you. And so bury your weight in the sand to me is about really, really, truly letting go of what no longer serves us. And that was like a really beautiful, I love ceremony. And it was just a really beautiful ceremony to say goodbye to that to that wait. So I then decided that, because I had such a great experience. And I love to share what I’ve learned with people that I decided to do, you know, a workshop, a couple of them every year. So I plan to do to do them a couple times a year, bury your weight in the sand and gathered with a small group of women, you know, it’s better, it’s more intimate, you know, eight, eight to 10 women working together, supporting each other and, you know, doing having a commitment to losing the weight and to transforming themselves and, and looking at the emotional baggage that we might have and helping each other, let it go. So all kinds of fun things planned to make that happen. It’s not going to be a heavy thing. It’s going to be a lot of fun. I’ve done a ton of workshops in my life. And I’ve done lots of ceremony and stuff. And so I’m really excited about what I have planned for women who decided to come and join me.

Gloria Grace Rand 27:17
All right, and so so where is it going to be when you have a tentative date set to

Unknown Speaker 27:26
we’re going to we’re going to be in Tocones Mexico, which is people are more familiar with Ixtapa. It’s not too far from mixed up. It’s like a 30 minute drive from Ixtapa and two counties. It’s just this really amazing little beach town, I just fell in love with it while I was there, there’s very few people like 500 people, it’s very safe. It’s very, there’s no big high rises, there’s, you know, it’s a very family oriented and sort of a sweet place and a healing place. There’s a lot of people there that do yoga and all kinds of transformational work. And I got to know a lot of the people there. So Felicity O’Dell is going to be my yoga instructor. And she’s amazing and Angelica spa, divine. She’s from South Africa, and she has just a really wonderful group of healing people. So we’ll be getting massages and pedicures as part of the package from her. And so it’s just a quiet, beautiful place right on the beach. And I love the people there. And me and several other people who have come there just been touched by some kind of special energy there. I don’t, I really can’t put my finger on it. So it’s gonna be in Chicago. And it’s gonna start, if you come for 21 days, it starts on the 13th of November, when we went days is a great way to change a habit. And then we work after that too, so that it’s a 2190 day, it’s all on my website, you can read about that. But if somebody can’t come for the full time, totally understandable. Then I asked you to come for 11 days, versus 11 days or the second 11 days, whatever you prefer, but we’re going to do some great work together and can’t wait to to meet greet and have some fabulous Women Transforming and reshaping their bodies and their souls and I mean, it’s gonna be really fun.

Gloria Grace Rand 29:34
It sounds awesome. And so I’ve got for those of you watching this video, you’ll see that I’ve got your website up there it’s Sondra, Joyce calm and that’s s o n Dr. A So, so you can go and check it out. And we had talked a little bit before this, I think that you’re also looking at doing like your You’re on talk, right or something, you get something coming up.

Dr Sondra Joyce 30:05
What what I was thinking that I knew really fun is if especially people from this call, or this call goes out, and people say, I might want to check this out, I was thinking on September 8, which is a Wednesday that I would do some zoom calls one of the 11, and one at Five Mountain Standard Time. And so that would be a great time for people to get to know each other a little bit, ask any questions that you might have about bury your weight in the sand and give us a chance to see if that’s a fit for you or not. So I would invite people to do that.

Gloria Grace Rand 30:42
Awesome. So I would say if you’re watching this right now on Facebook, if you want to put a comment down, maybe put like zoom in the comments, and then we’ll be sure to send you some information and be able to attend one of those sessions with Sandra next week. Otherwise, I would say just go to Sondra, Joyce calm right. And I think you’ve got a contact place on multiple places on your website where people can contact you.

Dr Sondra Joyce 31:13
It’s a it won’t take you long to read through the word through the websites probably about a seven minute read. And, you know, you can site you can sign up to for me to for us to be in touch to find you know, to do a little intake session about the workshop, you can just sign up for my healthy habits and tips, you can sign up for a coaching call. I mean, there’s all kinds of different ways to be connected to that website. And there’s information about me, if you want to know more about me, you can do that. More about your co neighs. And just you know, it’s all there. And I’m super excited about connecting with you women who want something new in your life. you’re wanting to transform body and soul. Let’s make the rest of your life the best of your life. That’s my tagline.

Gloria Grace Rand 32:04
I love that tagline. I think that’s an awesome one. Yes. So let’s, let’s do that make the best of the rest of

Dr Sondra Joyce 32:12
your life. Because you know what, who knows how many years we have left? No. And why not just really get get serious isn’t the right word, but get get focused on whatever it is that you that you want to do whatever it is, if it’s your legacy that you want to leave behind, if it’s, you know, really taking care of your body in a different way. If it’s transforming your relationships, I mean, there’s a lot, a lot that we can do together and I’m here for you.

Gloria Grace Rand 32:46
Well, awesome. Well, I would. I will say like I said, I’ve speak from personal experience of having known this wonderful woman for several years now that you will definitely be transformed. I’m transformed every time I speak with her. So it’s a wonderful thing. And I wish I could go but maybe next year, I’ll come out with me great

Dr Sondra Joyce 33:10
timing happening is happening. So a couple times a year. So Gloria, you’re amazing too. I just I love your spirit. And thank you for having me and, and you’re such a great interviewer and person. So thank you for all of your love and live love engage. Right?

Gloria Grace Rand 33:30
That’s right. Absolutely. Yes. So thank you. Thank you for being here today. And thank you for watching. And those of you who are listening because I will have this available on on all the lovely podcast platforms. And I hope that you are a subscriber of live love, engage and check us out. Yeah, go to live love, engage that’s where you can also listen to our episodes on the website, my website as well. So yeah, thank you again for being here, today, Sondra and for everyone else. Thank you for being here and spending some time with us today. And until next time. As always, I urge you to go out and live fully love deeply and engage authentically. Did you know that a majority of entrepreneurs tend to discount the importance of their work, and a good number of feel their success is simply due to luck. I know from personal experience that self doubt can keep you from having the kind of life and business you desire. That’s why I’ve created a free guide called uniquely you. How to move from self doubt, to self love in four simple steps. to claim your free guide. Go to live love engage dot gift that’s Live love engage dot g i f t

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About the Author
An online marketer, SEO copywriter, and speaker for 15+ years, Gloria Grace Rand has helped over 150 companies including AAA and Scholastic Book Fairs attract and convert leads into sales.

Losing her older sister to cancer propelled Gloria on a journey of spiritual awakening that resulted in the publication of her international best-selling book, "Live. Love. Engage. – How to Stop Doubting Yourself and Start Being Yourself."

Known as “The Light Messenger” for her ability to intuitively transmit healing messages of love and light, Gloria combines a unique blend of energy healing techniques, intuition, and marketing expertise to create transformational results for her clients.

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