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The Five Elements of Relationships with Dr. Vicki Matthews

In this episode, we’re talking about the Five Elements of Relationships with Dr. Vicki Matthews, who wrote a book on that subject. She is a naturopathic physician and outspoken voice for alternative healing and change, who has used the Five Elements model from Traditional Chinese medicine to help people improve their lives, health, and relationships.

During the episode, Dr. Matthews explains what the five elements are, and how we can use them to understand ourselves and others, so we can better relate to each other.

On this episode of the Live. Love. Engage. podcast:

  • What prompted Dr. Matthews to become a naturopathic physician
  • The difference between naturopathic and traditional medicine
  • How Dr. Matthews began to apply the 5 elements of Chinese medicine to relationships
  • What the 5 elements are and how they relate to personalities
  • How we can use our primary element to best advantage
  • Dr. Matthews explains why there’s so much conflict in the world today
  • Why it’s important to play to your strengths
  • Dr. Matthews shares a commonly held belief she disagrees with
  • The benefits of seeking relationship counseling

Connect with Dr. Vicki Matthews

Dr. Matthews’ website: vickimatthews.com

Quick Links:

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Live. Love. Engage. Podcast: Inspiration | Spiritual Awakening | Happiness | Success | Life

TRANSCRIPT

Gloria Grace Rand
Namaste, I am Gloria Grace Rand and I’m delighted to be with you again for another edition of Live Love, engage, and I’ve got a wonderful guest with us today. We’ve been just having a little chat before we get started, and I am delighted to welcome Dr. Vicki Matthews to the show.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
It’s great to be here. I’m so excited.

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, I am too. Cuz when I saw, um, what you are all about, I was like, Ooh, okay, this sounds good. I wanna, I wanna have her on the show to talk about what she’s gonna talk about, which I’m gonna tell you about in a minute. So , so let me tell you who she is. She is a naturopathic physician and outspoken voice for alternative healing and change. And she’s even appeared on Oprah show, not once, but twice. I might have to ask you about that later. Um, and is the author of book a new book called The Five Elements of Relationships, how to Get Along With Anyone, Any Time, any place. And boy is it a timely time for you to have that book out because, oh, it just seems like the last few years just, it’s just gotten harder and harder for people to get along anymore. Um, so we’re gonna dive into that in a minute because I really do wanna understand what those elements are and everything. But I always like to ask our guests to start off with, um, sharing a little bit about their journey and, and, you know, what led you to become a naturopathic physician for, for one thing and, and, and how you’ve then wound up becoming an author as well.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Okay. Well, I was, I, I’m a bit of a science nerd. I’ve always been a bit of a science nerd. And as an undergrad I was a premed major and I lived, I lived, I grew up in California, so I was doing this at ucla and, um, it became clear to me that I probably wasn’t going to be popular in medicine . So, because I was kind of, I mean, I grew up in California, I had alternative views on things. So I then through family circumstances, um, my father had a stroke and my mother moved the whole family back to the Midwest, which was where both my parents were from. And I walked into this small little college like, hi, I’m from ucla, California. Cool. I’m a psychobiology major. And the guy looked at me and said, right, we have biology and psychology, you pick. So my, my undergraduate degree is psychology, which has was fascinating.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
I loved it. And then I went on, uh, to, I decided I’d like to eat and make money. So I, when I went to graduate school, instead of going to years and years and years of med school, I could go to University of Chicago and get a degree in a master’s in business in mba in marketing and consumer behavior and make money. So that was really cool. And that was where I met my husband. And so it was, it was kind of a turn right, turn left, turn right, turn left type of journey. And, um, but it all worked out. I, I, I don’t begrudge any of it at all. It was a wonderful experience, all my education and, and actually then I’ve gone back and gotten, I did finally go back and get a naturopathic degree because I really did have a passion for medicine. And in fact, on, on surveys when it says education for me, my husband puts in too much . It’s like . So I love learning. I give, that’s really what it comes down to is I love learning.

Gloria Grace Rand
Absolutely. Okay. Explain a little bit about what is the, what makes a naturopathic physician different from like a regular, you know, medical doctor,

Dr. Vicki Matthews (03:28):
Medical doctor, other than the training, it’s two totally different sets of training. Um, all the anatomy, the biology, the pH, all the basics are the same. But a naturopath will use natural ways to heal the body. It’s, it’s one of the biggest way to describe it is we don’t violate the barrier and the boundary and the protective layer of the skin. We don’t do surgery, we don’t do shots. We work with the internal organs through herbs or homeopathy or water therapies or things like that. Uh, letting the body, helping and supporting the body in healing itself rather than, um, interventions that are more radical than we would be comfortable doing. That said, if I’m hit by a bus, take me to the hospital. You know, it’s, it’s . Um, but I will tell you I have worked with a lot of cancer patients and have a pretty high success rate with cancer patients.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Uh, but, but I’m coming at it from an emotional, mental, spiritual and physical perspective, like the whole person. And that’s actually how I got into relationships because when I was working with my cancer patients, when you talked about emotions, almost all the upheavals were in the relationships. So I had to kind of figure out how, what can I bring to the party for them that will help with the stabilize the relationship so their emotions are stabilized so that they can heal. And, uh, that actually came from, uh, discovering the whole five element model as part of my naturopathic studies and realizing that their personalities embedded in that model. And because the model predicts interaction between each element, those interactions hold between each personality. So I had, um, practiced it on my husband quite a bit.

Gloria Grace Rand
Nice to have a Guinea pig in the house for this. Absolutely.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
And it was, it, it was a, the book, the, my book starts with a story of being my husband and I got married, graduated, and moved all on the same weekend. Oh. And you know, nothing like getting it all condensed. Mm-hmm. . And then we were driving to one of my, from Chicago back out to LA to my best friend’s wedding. And we were driving through the Mojave Desert, and I don’t know if you’ve ever been in the Mojave Desert, but it is nothing but sand and rocks, rocks, sand, nothing, no highway patrolman, nobody. And my husband was going the speed limit. And I’m like, you’re going the speed, can we speed this up? And he looked at me like I had four heads and it’s like, we’re going the speed limit. So my, my little bride’s heart went, oh my God, what have I done?

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Who have I married? I mean, I love this guy, but he sounds like a colossal jerk. I would be speeding through the dust, you know? So when I discovered the five element model and the personalities in it, it’s like, oh my god. Of course, that makes such sense. One of the personalities is metal and they follow the rules. They’re process oriented, detail oriented. Laws are laws for a reason. I, on the other hand, am a wood, which is a cowboy. It’s like, let’s just do it bigger, better, more. Let’s get it going here. People . So it was, it’s, it’s been a journey to work out the dynamics between us and make it work. But we’ve been married a very long time, so it’s working,

Gloria Grace Rand
I guess so. Well, so you mentioned two of the, two of the five elements already. So metal wood, what, what are the other three?

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Okay, the five elements from, and this goes back millennia. This is a model theChinese developed as part of Chinese medicine, actually. It’s a way that they move through the body, but we’re just gonna talk about the personalities. So it’s water, which kind of relates to winter. So inner directed, quiet, um, and we could talk about each of the personalities more in depth if you’d like. Then wood, which is spring. So we’re doing a seasonal movement through a year. So wood is spring, that’s buds bursting through barks, spring animals coming out from hibernation. So emerging making, you know, an appearance sort of thing. The next is fire, which is summer. So it’s out there, fire people are fun, gregarious, let’s outgo, let’s be, you know, do fun things. And that’s summer. And then we’re gonna skip earth for a second and we’re gonna go to metal, which is fall, autumn, beginning to close down, beginning to look inside, looking back on the cycle and saying, what did we learn?

Dr. Vicki Matthews
What do we want to keep, what do we want to let go of letting go sits in the metal element and we can, um, we can learn a lot from metals because they have, they are the historians of the group. So they can say, this worked, this didn’t, why would you do this again? And then we’re coming back to earth. Earth is balance. It’s the solstice times the equinox times where either it’s perfect balance or it’s so out of balance, you need earth energy to hold it together. And that’s what earth people are like. They’re the moms, the dads, the teachers, the nurses, the, they hold things together and um, in really beautiful, wonderful ways. Now the good news is we have all five of them in our energetic makeup, but the one closest to us is a little bit like layers of paint on a window.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
The one closest to you, that’s, you think everything out there is blue, even though there’s white and green and black behind it. So I’m wired with my primary, what we call our primary elemental personality is a wood, make it happen type of person. My husband’s wired primary metal. So analyze what, what’s good. It’s like, it’s like a garden when the garden’s over, you keep the zucchini, but you get rid of the zucchini vine. And that is what metals do. They look at what happened, like, okay, this is worth it, forget the rest. So it’s, it’s an interesting dance in our relationship.

Gloria Grace Rand
Wow. Um, how does, um, how can it really, well I guess like…

Dr. Vicki Matthews
How do they relate?

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah. How do, yeah, yeah. And how do they Yeah. Relate to one another. Okay. And how can people then be able to use that information, I guess?

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Well, and without going too deep into technicalities, the model, and anybody can look at the model, you just Google five element model and it’s a, it’s a big circle with a star in the middle. And every place the stars point, touch the big circle. That’s where one of the elements sits. So you’ve, the elements can relate to each other by a big circle or a big star. One of them is supportive, nurturing. In fact, the big circle’s called the nurturing cycle. The star is called the decreasing cycle. Or you know, if you’re being harsh, the controlling cycle, and it’s just based on, on nature. Think about it. He’s a metal, I’m a wood. What’s the relationship? Well, metal chops wood, that’s not gonna feel very good. However, let’s take water. Water feeds wood, so that’s good. But water puts out fire. So that’s not good for the fire.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
So you can start to see a water personality in a relationship with a wood, it would feel very nurturing to the wood. The water would feel very happy that someone valued what it had to offer. And you know, you have to be careful because too much water will rot wood. But in general, we call that a, a nurturing relationship. A a positive relationship. Well, a water to a fire that may be like, you know, talk about dousing my flames, talk about, I mean, that can be horrible, but too much fire outta control is, is horrible damaging. And most fires, in fact, I know a lot of people that have a water fire relationship because the fire feels like, okay, I can get wildly crazy. And he’s there to say, okay, you know, pull it back here. Pull it back. Right? And so it each, I, my, the whole premise of my book is it every element can get along.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Elemental personality can get along with any other elemental personality. We are wired to connect and engage. But we have to understand, once I understood that Mark was a metal personality, not an anal retentive jerk, it was like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. He’s, he’s supposed to follow the rules. That’s a main aspect of his personality. I mean, he’s a great, he’s a great business person, number person. Me, not so much. But I can, I can honor that in him and appreciate it. And when it starts feeling too controlling to me, I know it’s not him trying to be obnoxious to me. I know he’s just being himself. And then I’ve got, and my book is full of, I mean it’s tons, probably hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of ideas and ways and hints and clues of how to get along with anybody. Mm-hmm. , I mean, if once you understand what you are and what they are, there’s no excuse not to get along. Yeah,

Gloria Grace Rand
I can see that. And, and I’m thinking of relationships in my life and saying, yeah, okay, I can see they’re this way. And, and, and definitely have one person I know who’s definitely a metal for sure.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Those are usually easy to pick out .

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah. And, and I think I’m sort of earth, but I think that also can be kind of, can conflict a little bit, I think too, cuz

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Well, and it depends. Remember we have all five, so I’m, I am more fiery when I’m doing interviews or I’m teaching from the stage than I ever would be at home. It just, because, you know, number one, fire melts metal, so it’s not a comfortable thing for my husband. Right? Yeah. And, um, fire burns wood. So it’s, it, it’s, but, but we have it and we automatically go where we need to go. I mean, if we stop and pay attention to where we move or how we start acting different around different people

Gloria Grace Rand
Mm-hmm. ,

Dr. Vicki Matthews
It’s, it’s sort of wired into us to do that. But one of the things that, my book is a whole list of what do each of the elements love? What do they hate? What matters to them? What kind of structure do they have in their personality? How do they express themselves? I mean, things like that. So it’s pretty easy, like stress. One of the best ways to recognize someone is where they go when they’re stressed and you know, how, how, what do they need the most? What are their socializations right? Or occupations? I mean, I can tell you if you know a nurse, you know, an earth, that’s the way it is. Earths are caring and loving and tender. They make amazing parents and in fact want, because we have all of them. Our primary is certainly how we manifest most. But our secondary does a pretty good job of flavoring that primary.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
My secondary is earth. So that makes me a good doctor. It makes me hopefully a good spouse. a good sister. And Mark’s secondary is Earth. So we meet at our earth and earth, earth relationships will feel like you’ve died and gone to heaven. Mm-hmm. . It’s just now the bad news with Earth, earth is because we can need people. It’s, it’s sometimes easy to accidentally slip into a codependent relationship between two earths. But anyway, it’s, there’s, there’s highs and lows in all of it, but the understanding to me is the key, the understanding is the key.

Gloria Grace Rand
Now a bit address what I was, where I was gonna go with this next question I think was, but I’ll I’ll still ask you anyway. Can someone change their personality, you know, or change the, the, the element that there is their like most dominant one? Okay. I guess maybe even, obviously, I guess you can change it a little bit when you’re in a certain circumstance, but let’s say you realize that this is not serving me anymore. Right? What do you think about that?

Dr. Vicki Matthews
So, um, what I will tell you is we can access any element we want to because it’s in our element, our energetic structure, if you will. It’s actually stacks up in our auric field. And so I know if I’m going to deal with someone that like earth wood is sort of controls earth in a good way because wood sta woods roots stabilize earth. So there’s no landslides. But if I know I’m gonna be dealing with an earth, I may pull back on some of the bossiness that is an automatic manifestation of wood. So I, I mean, I I you get sensitive to that, that, that this person isn’t going to, whereas a fire, I might be able to up it because wood feeds fire. So it’s a, it’s a dance, but we do that dance all the time. So we will never change our primary elemental personality.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
It’s, it’s kind of like you’re born into a, into a secret clubhouse, you know, you’re born, uh, a wood or an earth or a metal or a fire or a water, and no one tells you that. And no one tells you what it means or how to get along with that or what to do with that. And that’s kind of what I’m hoping my book does is, okay, we’ve all got this, you have got a primary personality, now let’s look at what, what do you love? Like if you’re a water, you’re gonna live free time, deep discussions and reading things like that. If you’re at earth, you’re gonna wanna help people and be part of a family and be into food. And I mean, oh my god, some of the best chefs in the world have a lot of earth energy. So it’s like learning that part, making peace with it, but then knowing you’ve got the freedom to step into any one of those personalities when you want to, when you need to.

Gloria Grace Rand
Right. Yeah. Okay,

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Cool. It’s good. It’s,

Gloria Grace Rand
I like that.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
It’s freedom. It’s freedom.

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, definitely. You know, you, you talk, so the subtitle of this book is how to Get Along with Anyone Anytime, any Place. And I think you, you said in the book something about, you know, one of the, the greatest challenges we face is getting along with each other. Um, why do you think we are especially, it seems like even more now Yes. This century. Certainly Yes. Um, having, having so much conflict with one another.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Okay. I, I think several reasons. One is the stakes are high right now, though there’s a lot going wrong with our planet. There’s a lot going wrong with our culture. Covid really ratcheted things up. Um, anything, anytime we are as a, as a species perceive that we’re out of control. And that’ll vary what that looks like, depending on the different personalities. But that’s, that makes the stakes higher. So I think part of it now is people care and I, and I also wanna cut everybody’s slack. Most people, I mean, I are, there are probably some truly evil people out there, but I think honestly, most people are coming from a place of believing in what they’re doing and caring what they do. They’re just coming with that filter of their primary element. Mm-hmm. . So I think our circumstances have ratcheted up the need for change.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
And you’ve got five different personalities looking at what needs to change in five different ways. And because they don’t understand each other, I mean, I’ll, I’ll give you some simple examples from my practice. I had a dad who was, had ch had children, he had girls and a son, and he had been a big stor, sports star in college. And so he was like, so psyched. I’m gonna play ball with my boy and da da da da. And the kid could have cared less about football. He, I mean, I really took a a lot, but in the end, I could help him understand why his kid wanted to play with that camera instead of that football. I mean, his kid was a water personality. There is no water personality on the, on the planet that wants to play football. It’s too rough, it’s too dirty, it’s too harsh. You know, subtleties sit in the water element, uh, poetry, painting, reading, all that. That’s, um, those are things that matter to water people not getting bowled over by five other people chasing a pig skin. You know? I mean, , it’s Yes. Not their idea of a good time. And that kid now is a professional photographer. Yeah.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
So it’s, it’s really those kinds of things or, or help a mom understand why her daughter would rather chat with her friends and hang out with friends than learn how to cook. The girl is not wired to be an earth and the mom is, which makes her a wonderful mom. I mean, oh my gosh, earth, earth personalities are wonderful parents, wonderful. But sometimes they don’t have earth personality kids. Yeah. Then you have to understand them.

Gloria Grace Rand
Absolutely. And I can, I can see how this would be really beneficial. Well number one for families, but I think also beneficial for, even for young adults to really help them as they’re going out into the world and trying to figure out what they wanna do.

Dr. Vicki Matthews (19:02):
Oh, right. I mean, I, again, in my book, I cover what are, what are the different personalities really good at, you know, play to your strengths. What do you hate doing? Don’t get a job in that field. I mean, to ask a water to be an accountant would, might, you might as well condemn them to failure . They are not detail oriented, but ask them to be part of a planning committee or envisioning a hundred years from now, what are we gonna need? They’ll rock it. They’ll just absolutely rock it. So it’s, it’s understanding yourself. Certainly that’s a huge piece of it. But once you understand yourself, you then understand, can look and start understanding the people around you.

Gloria Grace Rand
How could someone who wants to, you know, focus in on this and really play to their strengths, you know, start understanding what their elements are, how could they possibly get it wrong?

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Well, I, I’m gonna answer the question, but then I’m also gonna tell you a way to make sure they never get it wrong. Okay. Okay. So they can get it wrong by wanting to think there’s something they’re not, like if they’re married to a guy as a woman and she’s married to a guy who really wants kids, and so she’s like, okay, yeah, I really wanna be a, a good wife and a good homemaker and a good mother, and she doesn’t have enough earth to do it. So she could say, oh yeah, I’m an earth. Totally, I’m an earth. Look it, I want kids, but you can want, I mean, I can want the to climb the Eiffel Tower and I am not gonna make that. So it, it’s, it’s laying, um, it’s projecting something onto what you think you want need should be, and that could come from your childhood.

Dr. Vicki Matthews But there is also a, I offer a quiz basically, that people can take and they, it’s, it’s very accurate. And again, what happens is it’s, it’s a graded scale and you, you have all five. So you, you know, she can, someone can take that and see, oh yeah, okay, so this says I’m mostly a water, but look, I’ve got, I’ve got some earth, I’ve got some earth in there. And yes, they do. And waters can be great parents. I mean, it’s just that someone waters are so philosoph and so in their head, somebody has to make sure the kid gets fed on time. I mean, you know, especially if you’re married to another water. Right? So it’s, it’s, and there’s tons of examples in my book and, and there’s a quiz in my book and there’s a quiz on my website. So it, it’s, doesn’t have to be a big mystery, but I also encourage people to think about themselves first.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Don’t let a quiz tell you, I mean, use the quiz. It’s a great tool, right? But think about, so what do you think my pri what, what am I most passionate about? What do I like to do? What matters to me? I mean, water’s deep issues matter. Fire, excitement and tension matters. Mm-hmm. , I mean, why is a person that loves getting up in front of a thousand people and talking about something, a metal, as my husband has shown us knowledge, protocol, the right way to do things that matters, uh, would achieve achievement accomplishment. I, it was almost inevitable I would write a book because I’m wired to achieve or accomplish or to value that as part of who I am. Yes. So it’s, if we’re honest with ourselves, we probably have a pretty good idea. Mm-hmm. . And then the quiz can help confirm that. And it’ll also, I mean that’s how I’m so sure, other than the fact that Mark and I can get along well in home, at home that we’re both secondary earths is because we test is both having secondary earths,

Gloria Grace Rand (22:27):
, and, and, and even as you’re continuing to describe them, it’s like, yeah, I see, I see in myself different aspects cuz there’s certain things like I have been like a rule, you know, stickler on the rules and I get very bent outta shape when I see people, you know, not doing it. But then I’m also definitely a lot of water. I’m definitely an earth. I mean a parent, I, you know, took care of my kids. I was a caregiver for my sister. So it’s like, yeah, I can see how all of that and, and I do a podcast, so obviously I’ve got some fire in me too. .

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Yes, you do. You do, you do. And that’s the cool thing. And that’s what I want people, one of the things I really want people to get from this book is it’s not like, oh, I’ve labeled you and now you’re stuck. Right. It’s that understand where you come from, because that’ll be your, your easiest place. Understand where the people you’re relating to are coming from, so you understand them. But then, hey, the sky’s the limit. You wanted me, I remember I, I ran a training program for 10 years and I had a person who had to present a, I mean, and this is front of like four or 500 people, and she had to get up on stage and present a, a fairly complex piece of, of, um, information. It was like, not rocket science, but it, for her, it felt complex. And she’s like, I can’t do this.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
I can’t do this, I can’t do this. It’s like, find your fire, get up there, find your fire, you can do this. And she went up and was hysterical. She was fantastic. She was like, everybody was like, she got a standing ovation. So, and, and again, she knew the five elements enough to know when, when I said, I mean, it wasn’t like I just told someone who didn’t know what I was talking about, but giving her permission to tap that, reminding her she can, and giving her permission, made all the difference. So it, it, it’s like, um, I’ve, I’ve worked with people and that, that father with the, the kid that wouldn’t, didn’t really wanna play football, he didn’t even have earth as a secondary. I mean, his earth was way down the list, but he had it. And we did some work with him, understanding what it looks like and feels like when he steps in his earth. And it’s like, oh, I felt this the first time I held him. I know this. So he, yeah, he could find his way back to it, if you will. And I think that made a big difference in his parenting as well.

Gloria Grace Rand
That’s awesome. Um, what’s a commonly held belief that you passionately disagree with?

Dr. Vicki Matthews

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Um, that there are just some people we can’t get along with. I think if we, number one, if we want to get along with them, we can. Number two, if we have to get along with them, we can. And number three, why the hell don’t you wanna get along with them? Because they’re another human being. I mean, we’re not saying you have to marry them, but you should. I, I, I really, I think some of us, and I’m lumping myself into this core of humanity, it’s so wor life is so overwhelming right now. I think we retreat to ourselves. It’s like, okay, I can control this. I’m stable here and anybody else except maybe my immediate family or my best friend is a threat. And, and that’s, that’s wrong. That’s unfortunate. And for some people, maybe that’s their survival. And I’m not, I’m not dissing it.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
I’m not saying it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s an unfortunate way to have to live, let’s say that. It’s not right or wrong. It’s an unfortunate way to have to live. And there will be times, and I, I mean I, I’ve done this, I’m sure all of us have done it, that I have friends that are fiery and I may not be in a place to rise to the occasion to feel my wood is getting burned up. And, and so though, those are times it’s like, oh, you know, this week doesn’t work. How about next week? Mm-hmm. So that it’s, it’s, I’m not, I’m understanding, I’m not saying, oh, I hate her guts. I don’t wanna be around her. I mean, and I have one very good friend where this is exactly what happens. It’s like I can take her in small doses. I could not do something with her every day because it would be exhausting.

Dr. Vicki Matthews (26:22):
It would be absolutely exhausting. And God bless her husband, , I mean, , but, but he’s a metal. So her fire keeps him from being too stuffy. You know? It, it’s a, so again, I think everybody can get along with everybody else, but we really have to understand why they push our buttons and work around so I, I can step into a different part of my personality Yeah. To deal with people. And I’ve done that. And, and some of us do it automatically. It’s like, okay, yeah, I’m not, I seem to bother that person when I’m really outgoing and engaging in fun and laugh a lot. So I may be able to tap that down. We also, I have a, a girlfriend, I think I mentioned this in the book, it’s a different friend, actually. I don’t know why I’m with so many fire friends, but, oh well, , I used to love, there was a, and this was what I lived out in California, there was like a little tea house and we would go and, um, I would go with some friends and I took her and she couldn’t keep her mouth shut. I mean, she was like so loud. And so, and the whole, you could feel people staring at her. It’s like, well, stupid. Of course she’s gonna be that way. You really set her up by taking her here, take her someplace like a comedy club or something. But don’t take her someplace where she’s gonna be at a disadvantage by who she is. So that was a big learning for me. A big learning. Yeah.

Gloria Grace Rand
I, I, and I can see that. And I, and I know I’ve, I’ve had relationships similar to that and, uh, yeah, to be able to understand this, um, definitely folks have to give this book. And we’re, we’re gonna talk about where, where to get that in a moment. But I, I still wanna, um, just ask a couple more questions and, and one, this is one that I’d like to ask, ask my guests is what are you curious about right now?

Dr. Vicki Matthews
What am I curious about right now? Um, well right now, as we mentioned earlier, there is so much negativity in our world. I’m curious slash passionate about trying to figure out how to help change things. It’s a, it’s a, it makes you wanna turn the TV off at night. It makes you wanna, uh, not go out to dinner with people, you know, are gonna bring up subjects that will be contentious between you. But they like to, cuz they’re the type of person that’s like, you know, get it out on the table, we’ll talk about it, we’ll work it out. It’s like, no, you’re never gonna convince me and I’m never gonna convince you, so let’s just not go down that road. But how do you, how do you, how can we find commonality that we can gather around not, uh, all the divisiveness that’s out there right now. And I think some of the divisiveness is, comes, I totally believe it comes from lack of understanding. I mean, you could pick, I could pick, and I won’t bring up in names, but I could pick someone that I have very little respect for because of who and what they are. But I can understand them.

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
And I can say, okay, you’re a human being. You’re walking this planet. You have every right to do that just as much as I do, but you don’t have a right to be in my environment if I don’t want you to be in my environment. So it’s, it’s kind of that kind of, and I think, you know, our millennials are really grappling with that. Over half of our millennials are in some kind of relationship counseling now. And I, I think this is something that, um, how do you, how do you make the divisiveness of this world work for you? Not work in your favor or game it or anything, but how do you live with that?

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
How do you accept that? And and for me, what I’ve done is look at the people. I mean the people I agree with, I understand them, but look at the people I don’t agree with and where are they coming from? Is there some nobility in where they’re coming from? Can you find something positive in where they’re coming from, even if you don’t agree with it? And usually I can do that. I mean, it doesn’t mean I decide to suddenly be best friends with them because that won’t happen. Cause it’s a lot of work to find something positive and to hold that, but it still makes it easier to walk this planet now. Right?

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, absolutely. And and you, you know, you mentioned that half of the millenniums are in counseling and I see that as a really good thing.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
It’s a wonderful thing. Yeah. It’s a wonderful thing. But it is indicative of relationship issues.

Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, true.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
So I mean, and that’s all I’m saying is that, that it’s, it’s made it down to their level where they understand we’re not getting along. Yeah. And yes, bravo, I mean bravo to go take the step to, to get counseling and get that worked out. And in a way that’s, that’s something I think this, that my book can do. I mean, I’m not saying it takes the place of counseling and, and in my book several times, it’s like, if you’re having any kind of problem like this, please seek professional help immediately. Yeah. But I do think in my private practice, I have seen again and again and again, once we understand each other, 50% of the tension goes away. And that’s what I’m hoping, uh, people will get from the book, is an ability to understand themselves and an ability to understand the people in their life and the people in the world.

Gloria Grace Rand
Definitely. Awesome. Is there anything else I should have asked you about? Any other other point maybe about the book that we haven’t covered that you think would be important to leave people with? Um,

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Just that I think it can change the world and I mean, most authors think their book is important or they wouldn’t have written it. it takes a long time to write a book . But I, I think it’s, I think it’s the right book at the right time because it’s not, oh God, I don’t wanna upset anybody, but, and I’m a psychology, I have a psychology degree. It’s not psycho babel. It’s not this big heavy Briggs Meyer test. It’s, it’s five simple personality styles. You all, you are one of them as a primary. Understand yourself, understand the people around you and, and let that be the first step in getting along. And some of it may be okay, we’re not meant to be together. I mean, I cannot get past the fact that as a fire personality, you won’t go out to discos with me. You know, and, or, or, or he may say, I can’t get over the fact that you will not sit and have a reading night at home. I, I, it’s like, that may be asking too much. But I have worked with, with couples like that and what became okay was he would stay home and read and she would go to plays or parties with her girlfriends. I mean, so I, I just think nothing takes a place of love. Yeah. But I’ve seen too many marriages and relationships and families split apart because of lack of understanding. Yeah.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
So that would be it.

Gloria Grace Rand
Well I appreciate you sharing that. And now I know that there are people listening and or watching on YouTube going, okay, how do I get this book? I need to get this book. So how can people get the book and or also learn more about you and then,

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Okay, so my website is dr vicki matthews.com and it’s v i c k i Matthews with two T’s. And so you can, you can on there, you can order an autograph copy of the book from me directly if you want, or you can, it’s available on Amazon and it’s available on Barnes and Noble. So, and it’s um, it’s doing fairly well. You know, it’s, it’s got the, my first weekend, it was the number one new release in dating on Amazon. So that was exciting. And it’s won a couple contests about and then nonfiction. So that’s fun. So I’m, I’m encouraged, but that’s all great. I want people to get along right. I, I really believe the, I believe to my core of my being that the material in this book will help us get along better. And that’s, I mean, that’s what I’m the most excited about. I mean, will, will my book change the World? Probably not, but will it change people? Absolutely.

Gloria Grace Rand
Hey, that’s, that’s a pretty good goal to shoot for. And I, and I’m sure you were accomplishing it. So right now, I hope so let me just, I want to just clarify cuz I, I interviewed someone recently who was also a doctor and I just wanted make sure for the website it do you spell out doctor or is it d r d r. Vicky.

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Okay. It’s d r v i c k i m a t t h e w S.

Gloria Grace Rand
Okay,

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Good. Just wanna make sure. And if you just, if you go on Amazon and just Google or search for five elements of relationships, you’ll get it. It’s right there.

Gloria Grace Rand
Perfect. Awesome, fun. Yes. I’ve enjoyed this conversation and, and for those of you listening, I will have all that information in the show notes, so don’t worry as well. But thank you so much for spending some time with us here today and, and oh,

Dr. Vicki Matthews
It was a pleasure and a joy.

Gloria Grace Rand
Well, I wish you much, I

Dr. Vicki Matthews
Really, really had a good time.

Gloria Grace Rand
Well, good. I wish you, wish you much, much success. I’m trying to put those two words together and that didn’t work out very well. So Yeah. With the book. So thank you, thank you. And I also really am grateful to all of you out there who are listening and subscribing and I really glad to have you here with me. And if you received value out of today’s episode, I encourage you to go out and, uh, tell a friend about it and share it with them. And I’m trusting that you’re already subscribed and if not, make sure you’re subscribed as well. So until next time, as always, I encourage you to go out and live fully, love deeply, and engage authentically.

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About the Author
Known as The Insightful Copywriter, Gloria Grace Rand is also an inspirational speaker, author and host of the Live. Love. Engage. podcast. Prior to launching her SEO Copywriting business in 2009, Gloria spent nearly two decades in television, most notably as writer and producer for the award-winning PBS financial news program, “Nightly Business Report.”

Gloria turned to writing as a way to communicate, since growing up with an alcoholic father and abusive mother taught her that it was safer to be seen and not heard. But not speaking her truth caused Gloria problems such as overeating, control issues, and an inability to fully trust people. After investing in coaching & personal development programs, and studying spiritual books like “A Course in Miracles,” Gloria healed her emotional wounds. Today, she helps entrepreneurs develop clarity, confidence and connection to the truth of who you are, so you can create a business that has more impact, influence and income!

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