What does it mean to truly embrace grief and navigate its tumultuous waves? Join us as we explore strategies that entrepreneurs can use to heal from grief with Sheila Clemenson, transition coach and author of “Over the Rainbow: From the Depths of Grief to Hope.”
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Pandora | iHeartRadio | Podchaser | Email | RSS
Show Notes | Transcript“Moving forward through grief is a journey of discovery. It’s discovering who you are in your new state of being.” – Sheila Clemenson
Sheila Clemenson is a seasoned transition coach and best-selling author who discovered how to create a sanctuary for those facing difficult situations, guiding them to grow and move forward. Sheila knows the pain of grief all too well, losing her father to suicide and her first husband to ALS. Together, we unravel the complex tapestry of emotions that grief encompasses—sadness, anger, anticipatory grief—and how to coexist with these feelings rather than attempting to conquer them. Sheila’s insights reveal that grief extends beyond the death of loved ones and that it can also stem from significant life changes, such as the end of a relationship or losing a job.
In this episode, you will learn:
- The multifaceted nature of grief and how emotions manifest and evolve
- Strategies for managing grief constructively
- Methods for maintaining emotional and physical boundaries
- The value of resources like meditation apps and energy medicine
- How society’s discomfort with grief leaves individuals isolated
- How to handle hurtful comments and toxic positivity
- The importance of supportive management in the workplace
Resources:
Join the Soulful Women’s Network
Connect with Sheila:
Book Website: sheilaclemenson.com
Website: transitionscoachingservices.com
Connect with Gloria “Grace” at Live Love Engage:
Send Gloria Grace a message
☕ Support the podcast
❤ Love this episode? Leave us a review and rating
LinkedIn: Gloria Grace Rand
Facebook: Gloria Grace Rand
YouTube: Gloria Grace Rand
TRANSCRIPT
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Namaste. Grief is something that we all experience in life, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s easy to get through. But today’s guest has quite literally written a book on the subject to help you traverse this journey with compassion and courage. But before I bring her on, I’d like to welcome those of you who may be new to Live, Love, Engage. I am Gloria Grace, and I help female entrepreneurs attract more clients with calm, clarity, and confidence by helping them to release negative thought patterns like self-doubt and poor self-worth. And joining us today in just a moment is Sheila Clemonson. She is a seasoned transition coach and author of the book Over the Rainbow, From the Depths of Grief to Hope. And Sheila knows the pain of grief all too well, losing her first husband at a young age to ALS. But through her own journey, she discovered how to create a sanctuary for those facing difficult situations, guiding them to grow and move forward. So without further ado, I’m going to bring her on so we can talk about this subject and how we can get through it with compassion. So here we go. Welcome, Sheila, to Live, Love, Engage.
Sheila Clemenson:
Hi, Grace. It’s wonderful to be here today. Thank you so much for having me on.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Well, I appreciate having people like you on to talk about these things because we don’t always talk about it, and yet it is something that we go through. I mean, it’s inevitable. You know, what is it they say? The only two sure things in life are death and taxes. And, of course, grief isn’t always just about death as well. I mean, sometimes that, you know, there’s all kinds of different pauses that we can have. Death of a relationship or something going on with our with a job, you know, if we lose a position. So, let’s talk a little bit, I thought we might start off with kind of talking about some of the complex emotions that come up when someone experiences a loss. Because I know I’ve had not just necessarily the inevitable sadness comes up, there’s been other things too. So, I wonder if you can shed some light on that for us.
Sheila Clemenson:
Yeah, so essentially, you know, I call myself a professional griever. And I know that it sounds kind of crazy, but when I look at my life and my grief experiences, they did start at a young age. I lost my father to suicide when I was five years old. And I did not know it was suicide at the time. I wasn’t told that. I was told he was in a car accident by my mom because she probably didn’t think a five-year-old, of course, was going to understand something like that. But, you know, not having a dad from five years old on, you know, my life was living in that very shadow. And so where I kind of go with that is that loss was profound from a young age and All of the emotions that go with that just became very familiar to me. And then moving forward through my journey, you know, loss of relationships, loss of innocence. There’s some of that in my story about some sexual abuse I had when I was younger. loss then of my first husband, Grant, and that is the incredible journey that I’ve written about in the Over the Rainbow book. You know, grief has become a companion for me, and I want to say that it’s not comfortable, but you learn how to live with it, I think is the best way to say that. I don’t care how long It’s been since someone has died that you have cared about that it has been important in your life You are still experiencing that over time. I met with a woman yesterday She her husband died 30 years ago and she’s like we never really get over it and I’m like no we’d never get over and so I think the emotions that creep in at any given time are we’re learning how to live with them and manage them. Sometimes there’s deep sadness, sometimes that’s tied to anniversaries or special days that you had together. Mother’s Day and Father’s Day that recently came up can certainly trigger a lot of things. And then there’s an anticipatory grief that I don’t think we talk about very much, Grace, that is when we’ve lost people or things, before we’ve lost them. And that can be relationships that aren’t going the way we want them to. It can look like a lot of different things. So grief is pretty extensive. It’s not just to the death of somebody that we love dearly. It’s so much more than that.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, I can understand that and relate to that, and I do know the significance of, like, different anniversaries or, you know, significant dates that come up. But I want to ask you about this because I know for me, especially when I lost my…my brother died in his sleep at age 33 when I was, like, 17 years old. And not only did I have the sadness, but I also had a lot of anger, you know. you know, at a young age, you know, just, you know, really being, you know, it’s like, how could you do this to mom? Especially, he died on Mother’s Day of all days. You know, it’s like, oh my gosh. And I can, you know, only imagine, you know, God forbids. That’s just not. Yeah, what happened to me. But I, you know, because it was a double whammy and her firstborn and everything. So, yeah, can you talk about that? You know, how does, you know, how do you deal with some of that, you know, anger that comes up?
Sheila Clemenson:
Anger is… I have to tell you, it’s one of those emotions that I try to stay away from. And it’s not comfortable for me. I’m a people pleaser. I want to make everybody happy. I’m a peacemaker. I want to take it all on and not let anybody see that anger. However, that anger shows up in different ways for different people, right? It could be being passive aggressive. It could be, I’m fine. And we know what fine means. I define it in my book. And that’s effed up, insecure, neurotic and emotional. I think that sometimes we internalize that and get resentful, which is probably more of what I did. I tried to show up as the best person that I could for my husband, Grant, when I was his caregiver. But we were on that journey for four and a half years. And there was a lot of anger in our journey, our connection with what was happening. And I want to say, unfortunately, verbally, we took it out on one another. And I’m not proud of that. But I think it’s important for people to know that I talk about that in my book because it is a very real aspect of who we are. Some might say it’s a shadow side of who we are, right? Living in that anger and that resentment. But I want to say that also, sometimes we take that out on those we love the most because we’re pretty confident they’re not going to leave. And so my husband Grant and I, we went through that a lot together and that was really challenging. And from a spiritual place, I have a really great story about connecting with the medium in the book where I asked the medium, you know, can Grant forgive me for the things that happened that we didn’t really want to go through, right? And she said, there’s nothing to forget. You were living in a human experience, and your spiritual selves and your souls don’t need that. And she also brought Grant in, and there’s some really cool stories to that. But I say that because sometimes we need that validation in some way. And I was still holding on to that guilt and shame from those angry outbursts and those really human situations. And I think that I needed to do what I needed to do to try to work through that guilt and that shame. And I did a lot of healing work on myself and especially with some spiritual connections. So I just put that in my book too.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, I appreciate that and I can relate to that because I know I was a sort of part-time caregiver for my sister while she was going through her cancer journey. And yeah, and there were some times where, you know, certainly she lashed out, which was understandable because she’s in pain, but sometimes I was just like, you know, I’m doing the best I can here. You know, it’s like you wanted this, now you change your mind and, you know. And one thing that kept me from doing that too often was I had meditation practice and that that I made sure I meditated every morning and that helped me a great deal to not fly off the handle too many times but But it’s it’s but you’re right, you know, we are human and it’s gonna happen even though we don’t you know, we certainly understand what the other person is going through and we you know, we don’t want to do it but, you know, stuff happens and we can, you know, sometimes we can only tolerate so much and we reach our, you know, and maybe something else has happened that’s upset us and so we, you know, take it out on them unfortunately.
Sheila Clemenson:
Well, and I want to say that those closest to us typically know how to trigger us more than any animals that we know, right? That’s true, yes. They know how to trigger it and stick the finger in and
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, this is true. Well, let’s talk about a little bit, let’s go into some, you know, some of the, you talked about that you were able to do some, you know, healing work on yourself and to be able to help, especially some of that, you know, you said that the shame and the the guilt and things like that. So what strategies can people use? And especially, I do want to focus in on entrepreneurs in particular, because that’s who are my audience is about, you know, trying to keep your business afloat while you’re grieving, because I know I struggled with that myself. So what advice do you have for, in general, going through this, but maybe even especially for folks who are trying to keep a business going at the same time?
Sheila Clemenson:
Yeah. Well, I want to share something interesting. When I was writing my book, I connected spiritually, right? And I’m like, you know, God, Why am I writing the grief book and not the career coaching book? Because I’m a career coach and I’ve been in HR for 20 plus years and I help people connect with their meaningful purpose and help them get meaningful work, but yes, also job search, et cetera. Well, I had a client after I asked this, I had a client come in, he had sold his business as a CEO. He had lost his best friend in a very tragic, tragic way that I won’t go into here, but it’s intense. And he said to me, Sheila, I don’t need you to be a therapist for me. I’ve got one of those. I need you to help me figure this out because I need to show up in my life for my family and myself. And I don’t know how I’m going to do this. And so that right there, coming in was like, okay, I’m holding space for people who have experienced a significant amount of loss and then moving forward from that, right? I want to say that, you know, well, what is it about that, right? Yes, getting a really exceptional therapist, somebody that you can work with, having some grief support groups, if that’s something that you can connect with. I help people with that moving forward piece, but I think the number one thing that we always have to remember is radical self-care. And what does radical self-care look like for you may be very different from what it looks like for someone else. So I think it’s important for people to be thoughtful about how they take care of themselves when they’re in the grief wilderness, which is a term I borrowed from Alan Walsall. He’s the locally grief educator. We’ve never been in this place before, unless you have. And if you have, it’s been different. And so how are you going to take care of yourself in new ways? This might be setting boundaries with people. This might be not entertaining being around certain people that you have to do a lot more emotional work around. This could be looking at if you’re feeling a little out of your body because when we’re grieving we do, we feel disconnected to our physical body, get yourself into the earth. Get your feet in the ground, whether that’s a beach, whether that’s hiking, whether that’s the earth, you know, it’s Trying to help yourself reconnect within yourself and anything that you can do with that. Sometimes that can look like, you know, soothing ways of, you know, the meditation that you talk about, the visualizations. Calm app is really a great one for that too. Other programs. When we look at you know, numbing ourselves in different ways. I talk about in the book how I was a dysfunctional griever. And I say dysfunctional, functionally dysfunctional, because I was stumbling around in the dark looking for the light switch in my underwear for years. So I do, my book has a lot of humor in it about kind of what not to do. I was on Zoloft and antidepressant for five years, and I say I highly recommend it, even though it might not be for everybody. And of course, I’m not a doctor, so I can’t condone that. But I think that you have to do what you’re drawn to doing Numbing yourself in ways that aren’t functional the drinking which I did the inappropriate sexual relationships The you know, whatever it was that I felt like I needed to bring in for myself It was what I did, but it wasn’t what necessarily was the healthiest thing for me So I do talk about that in my book though that I think there’s a humanness to that But I think there are absolutely healthy weight healthier ways to that. So I talked about that in my self-reflection exercises
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, and I can relate to that because I tell you, when my sister passed, she was the last connection to the family I grew up with, and I was also with her when she passed, which I haven’t been with any other relatives. So, it just hit me in so many different ways. I had lost a ton of weight. I was doing really well. And I said, because food has always been my comfort, you know, crutch to go to, I was like, you know what, I’m giving myself permission to indulge for a little while because You know, in hindsight, I wish I hadn’t, but, you know, it was just like I needed something to kind of help me numb the pain. And thankfully, I, you know, had alcoholism in the family, so I don’t go that route. Food is my drug of choice instead.
Sheila Clemenson:
I’m a recovered alcoholic, 18 plus years. And I do talk about that journey in the book as well. Yeah, because that’s very real for some people. Energy medicine, I’m a Reiki level three practitioner. I did that, which was easy to do in Hawaii, the Hawaiian Islands, you know, so yeah, I brought in a lot of energy medicine, massage therapy is amazing. You know, so there are physical ways that you can bring that energy and that healing. You talk about being there with your sister when she died. I was there with Grant in the moment he passed away as well. And my book talks about our secret beach story, which is what happened on his last day. It makes grown men cry, and I’m proud of that. It comes with a warning. But I think that, you know, interestingly enough, after Grant died, in the moment that he was dying, he was really angry. He was angry because he didn’t have enough morphine. And I put my arms around him in the moment he passed, and my friend put her arms around me. And that, I want to say that afterwards, I did feel some kind of attachments and some cords that like kind of needed to be cut just from that intensely emotional experience. But it was beautiful also in the sense that it was also so hard to at the same time. And so this is where we talk about, you know, having all of the variety of feelings at the same time and that you can have all of the feelings at the same time. Especially when you’re grieving.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the one thing I would like to just put out there for folks listening is to just, you know, you mentioned before early on about radical self-care. And I would just say, just be kind to yourself. Just really Be kind. Because this is not, yeah, it’s how no matter how it looks, you know, sometimes people don’t even react right away. It’s later, you know, that it hits them. And just know that I read a really great book that my sister had in her bookcase and that I took some books home and later was going through them going, oh, isn’t this an interesting book, Michaela, that you had for me to find? It was called Grieving Mindfully. Helped me a lot and and just to understand that it is sort of this roller coaster of of emotions that come up and that You know that you know, you might be having a really great day and all of a sudden something happens.
Sheila Clemenson:
So it’s it’s okay Well, I have a big wave on my book for a reason. Mm-hmm It’s the grief waves that come in and they hit us and they knock us down and you cannot prepare yourself Or predict when they’re gonna happen They can happen at any point in time. It doesn’t matter how far along on your journey you are. 24 years, I’m finishing my book, and I had a grief wave hit me, and I talk about it in the book. I’ve been married for 12 years. I’ve been with my next beloved, Sean, for 18. And you can still experience that, even when you’ve moved forward, quote, unquote, and built your life, right? Yeah, so I do want to say that, you know, that that’s really profound, those experiences in those moments. What I also want to share about my book, which was not something that I would have predicted, some feedback that I got from one of my advanced readers was Sheila, I didn’t need your grief book because of what I’m experiencing. I haven’t experienced the depth of somebody close to me, fortunately, yet. But when I read your book, I have been able to show up for my family and friends who are grieving more fully than I could have before I read it. And that hit me like you wouldn’t believe because I was like, most people will look at my book and go, oh, I don’t need that. And then they kind of treat grief like it’s a contagious disease.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
I don’t need that.
Sheila Clemenson:
So that was profound for me to say, you can read my book if you don’t need it. Yes, it’s a beautiful love story. Yes, I talk about living on Kauai. I talk about I talk about Hawaiian culture. I talk about some mystical things that are amazing. It’s a great story if you don’t need it. If you do need it, there’s connection. There is hopefully support and there is somebody else that’s telling you about their crazy experiences of when they were grieving that like most of the time people don’t talk about and they’re extremely raw and vulnerable. And so I talk about that here. To hear that from one of my friends who was my advanced reader and she said, I was able to show up for my aunt who lost my uncle seven years ago. My other members are saying, why isn’t she over this yet? What’s going on? Why is she having such a hard time? And my friend was able to just hold space with her and just say, it isn’t about time, people.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Absolutely. Yeah. And that actually kind of brings me good segue to my next question because I think that sort of is an example. So what are some common myths and maybe even taboos around grief?
Sheila Clemenson:
Time heals all wounds because it doesn’t. I think some other myths around this are, you know, that you just get over it, but you don’t. You bring it forward with you and you learn how to live with it. I think there is this whole idea about being strong for other people. And for whatever reason, we feel like we need to be strong around other people that we can’t break down and fall apart because it’s not socially acceptable. And I do think that our culture is grief averse. And I don’t think that our culture here really knows how to incorporate the grieving process socially and culturally. You know, when in the HR world that I’ve been in for years when you’re given, you know, one week to go to grieve. And then you’re supposed to show back up and you’re like, how the heck am I going to show up? in my work when my whole life has completely fallen apart and I have to move forward and whatever that looks like for people. I want to say that really exceptionally great managers are your best ally and your best champion when you’re grieving because they’re going to help you. Now, if you’re a business owner, that’s a totally different situation when you’re an entrepreneur business owner and you’re looking at grief from that perspective because you’re typically carrying your own load in yourself. Hopefully you have some emergency reserves that you’re able to tap into and you’re able to take some time for yourself to do that internal processing and that heavier grieving. And I just say that, you know, that’s going to look different over time, but giving yourself time to do that. I have clients who I’m working with from a professional place who are taking, you know, who take medical leaves, right, or who take leaves to take some time for grief. You know, we have unlimited paid time off that is becoming so popular. I’m curious about how people are testing that in their grief process and taking care of themselves. And I would highly encourage it. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But it’s certainly harder as an entrepreneur when you’re carrying all of your weight yourself and how you show up. And, you know, you talk about authenticity in your podcast and in your video. that authenticity piece is. Maybe not wearing the grease mask. Telling somebody, I’m having a tough day today. I’m okay. But just know that what was happening. And so like from a coaching perspective, which you’re a coach, you know, from that coaching perspective, it’s about like, what’s happening? What’s the temperature in the room today? I want you to know this is going on for me. We’re doing our work. but I want you to know what’s happening so that you can know something about my life. So many people want to be private and they don’t want to tell people anything. But if you don’t tell people what is happening with you, they’re not going to be able to support you in a way that they would normally be able to support you or they would humanly, connecting in the humanness of the experience, be able to support you in a more nurturing, compassionate, thoughtful way.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll just share a brief story. I have a Facebook group that’s called the Soulful Women’s Network, and we meet either online or in person once a month. And I guess this was now about two months ago when we last met online, is that we had two of the women in our group. woman mentioned that, yeah, she had just, I think, lost her brother-in-law maybe or something like that or a sister or something. I forget what it was. But, you know, and so she was, you know, feeling a little emotional. And then because she opened up and someone else in the group said, yeah, you know, I actually just lost a good friend of mine as well recently. You know, and then it kind of brought up for me, oh, I know, this was during the month of May, and which was when my brother had passed, you know, and so it was like, so I started getting emotional. But it was really great that we were able to hold space for each other and really, you know, be there and be able to support each other through that because I think it is so important. Yes, you don’t want to necessarily maybe, you know, you know, kind of, kind of, you know, have everything come out, you know, necessarily like on social media per se, you know, but you could still have to have diary at the night. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was gonna say vomit. But you know, it’s not just going to everything. But we can at least acknowledge and say, you know, I’m kind of going through a little little thing right now and that that is perky as I would like to be so just pardon me for now you know and I will I will let this wave pass I you know and yeah and just be able to do that.
Sheila Clemenson:
I love that there’s a an honesty that that connects with that uh while at the same time you know we look at this too right and you know I talk about this stupid shit that people say and do when you’re grieving. And I have a certain place in my chapter for that. And I think that that’s really important because people will say and do stupid things. And you have to decide whether you’re going to take it personally or not. And when we are sensitively feeling all of our emotions to the point that we feel so raw, like I used to tell people I felt like I was walking around naked in public. I felt that raw and vulnerable when I was grieving. You hold space with that and just any little thing can sometimes set you off or rub you the wrong way, right? You know, when you think about, you know, the different things that people say or do, you know, you have to kind of take that with a grain of salt. But at the same time, you know, you’re in a different space, a more sensitive space as well. And so I just say that if you can’t take it in stride, that’s okay. You know, tell somebody. I said in my book, I’m sure that I thought about telling somebody to F off more than I actually told them to. to how thinking that is not a bad thing either, you know, that’s true, you know, you know, you’re and so, you know, I think that, you know, then there is this whole other aspect of toxic positivity, right? Yeah. And, you know, I think the things that people might say that can be hurtful, right? Like some people might have said to me, well, you’re young, you’re gonna find another husband. You’ll get married again and have a baby someday. You know, your life will return to normal. Whatever normal was or is, which it doesn’t. So, you know, you hold space with that and you’re like, you know, have you ever experienced the death of somebody? And probably not, but people try to, it’s almost like they try to make themselves feel better by saying something. And I want to say, instead of saying anything, if someone will allow you to hug them, hug them. You know, sometimes it’s as simple as this is really effed up, you know? This is really a messed up situation. And what can I do to just be here for you? You know, so I think that there is that uncomfortableness with supporting people in those places. And our culture does not prepare people for that.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah.
Sheila Clemenson:
So we have to find it other places.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you did have that suggestion that when people don’t know what to say to, yeah, oftentimes it is just, you know, squeeze their hand, give them a hug, and as you say, just say, what can I do? You know, what can I do? How can I help? And that can just be so much, so much better just because we all want to be seen, we all want to be heard, and we want to Yeah, we don’t need to necessarily want advice in this moment. We just want to be able to be, I think.
Sheila Clemenson:
And at a certain point in your process, there will be crickets, right? And that’s when you’re sitting more deeply with your own emotions and your own feelings, and that’s when the grief really hits people. So trying to invite people in when you can or when you want to, and trying to learn how to ask for what you need. If you’re not good at that, grief support groups can help with that. Therapy can help with that. You know, I think that people just have to do what they can to support themselves. And just remember that people are not mind readers. It’s really wonderful if you have people in your life who are. Keep them very close to you. I have some mind readers and my gosh, keep them really close to you because you’re going to need them.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, definitely. Oh, this has been so wonderful. Is there anything else that I didn’t ask you that I should have or any other last point you want to make before we end this discussion today?
Sheila Clemenson:
So, I want to say that moving forward through grief is a journey. It is a discovery process. It’s discovering who you are in your new state of being, the new you, coming through that experience and working through that experience. It’s not something that just, you know, you’d get over. It’s just not something that you just wake up one day and everything’s okay. You know, you’re slowly and sometimes quickly putting a foot in front of the other and moving forward. And then you’re falling back from time to time back into the grief pit and then climbing your way back out and standing up. And then the sun finally shines on you and you’re able to smile again. And that resilience and that joy will come through again, and you will have moments of that while you are grieving. And it’s okay to experience the wide range of emotions of where you’re at. So I have a companion journal that goes with my book that people can download the first three chapters for free online at SheilaClemensen.com. And just that my book has a lot of self-reflection exercises at the end of every chapter to support and help you wherever you are on that journey, because this book is a 24-year journey of my grief, which I think is really good for people to know. It’s not just, you know, it’s different stages. And so it kind of helps people to know. Someone asked me, you know, how long does it take to get to a place where you finally feel functional? And I say it’s different for different people. But, you know, think about how long you were with that person, how much they meant to you and how much of your life they were a part of. And you can start seeing how that moves forward from there. My career Business Transitions Coaching Services, it’s transitions with an “s” coachingservices with an “s” dot com. I do career coaching and that isn’t just job search, but it’s kind of helping people figure out where they want to go, what’s that next adventure they want to have, whatever stage of life that they’re in. And I always find that there is that moving forward piece professionally that people like to connect with while they’re grieving because they can’t do what they were doing the same ever again. So they’re looking for something new and how they’re going to incorporate this next journey of their life. And I would be honored to connect with people and I offer complimentary sessions online. to support people with that too, to get a taste of, you know, kind of what I do with people. So yeah, thank you for letting me share that. Awesome.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, it’s, that last point is so important because yeah, I know when my sister passed, I was, in the middle of a program, but I suddenly wasn’t sure what the heck I wanted to do anymore. And, you know, do I still want to do the business I was in? And so, yeah, it takes a while to sort of sort all those things out. And I do think that sometimes you will sort of experience like, oh, I’m feeling okay today. Oh, isn’t that a nice change? And be like, oh, okay, cool. So this is what that felt like. Yeah, it’s been a while.
Sheila Clemenson:
And then we’ll eventually have more of those days. Yeah, exactly.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much for being here today. It’s been just a delight talking with you. And yeah, I know that you’ve helped a lot of folks and will continue to help folks. And I will have all of your information in the show notes for those of you who are listening, so just go back down and check that out if you’re listening on one of your favorite podcast platforms.
Sheila Clemenson:
Thank you so much, Grace, and all of the work that you’re doing for people and in our world as well. I’m grateful that you’re here for us, too.
Gloria “Grace” Rand:
Thank you. And I do want to thank all of you for watching on YouTube, for watching on social media, for listening today. And I am so blessed and I want to start, I was looking recently at all the wonderful people who have left reviews on Apple and I’m going to start doing shout outs, I promise I will, because it just touches my heart from around the world, which is pretty cool. Thank you again, and I want to encourage you, if you are not subscribed yet, please do so. And you can do it on your favorite podcast platform, at Gloria Grace Rand on YouTube. And until we meet again, I encourage you to go out and live fully, love deeply, and engage authentically.
