Have you ever considered that your deepest pain could lead to powerful personal growth? In this enlightening episode, I sit down with Craig Perra, founder of the Mindful Habit system, to explore the profound wisdom in our emotional wounds that can be revealed through self-leadership.
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Show Notes | Transcript“The deeper the wound, the greater the healing. And so your greatest pain becomes your greatest teacher.” – Craig Perra
Craig shares his inspiring journey from the depths of addiction and self-destruction to becoming a renowned life coach. His story is a testament to the transformative power of compassion, both from others and ourselves.
“All behavior is need-seeking behavior,” Craig reveals, offering a perspective-shifting insight that challenges our traditional views of “good” and “bad” habits. This understanding forms the foundation of his approach to healing and personal transformation.
In this episode, you’ll discover how to:
- How to recognize and communicate with different parts of yourself
- The surprising truth about anger and other ‘negative’ emotions
- Practical techniques for using mindfulness to navigate triggering situations
- Why breathing and gratitude are more powerful than you might think
Key insights include:
- The Internal Family Systems model and its application in personal growth
- How our habits and patterns often stem from childhood experiences
- The importance of curiosity and compassion in self-leadership
- Why connection is crucial for overcoming addiction and emotional challenges
Whether you’re grappling with personal challenges, seeking to understand your emotional responses better, or looking to support a loved one through difficult times, this conversation offers valuable insights and practical strategies for growth and healing.
Tune in to learn how embracing all parts of yourself – even the ones you’ve labeled as “bad” – can lead to profound personal transformation and a more fulfilling life.
Connect with Craig
Website: mindfulhabithelp.com
Podcast: Sex Afflictions and Porn Addictions
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TRANSCRIPT
Gloria Grace Rand
Have you ever considered how the pain of betrayal could actually become the catalyst for your most powerful transformation? Well, today’s conversation with our guest is going to dive deep into healing those invisible wounds so that you’re able to reclaim your self worth and turn your journey of self love into a beacon of inspiration for others. But before we get there, I do want to welcome those of you who are maybe new to the podcast or welcome those of you who are wonderful subscribers. I want to welcome you back. And for those who are new, I am Gloria Grace, the founder of Align to Shine Academy. And I work with spiritually minded women entrepreneurs, help them to break free from self doubt and really, really step into their highest potential. And part of that is dealing with some of the things we’re going to be talking about today. So in just a moment, I’m going to bring on Craig Perra, who is the founder of the Mindful Habit system. And Craig overcame his own mental health struggles and addictions to become a renowned life coach. And as a global leader in breaking self destructive habits, Craig’s transformative approach blends mindfulness, self leadership and actionable strategies, empowering millions to create healthier, more fulfilling lives. So I can’t wait to hear what he has to say on this subject. I hope you can’t either. So without further ado, let me bring him up here and welcome you, Craig, officially to Live Love Engage.
Craig Perra
Thank you, Gloria. It’s a privilege to be here. Namaste. Right back at you. I’m happy to be here. Look forward to this conversation we’re going to have today.
Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, absolutely, me too. And, and I know it’s, you know, I guess we don’t like to necessarily talk about, you know, having emotional wounds and things like that, but it does actually affect our, you know, behavior and, and it can affect our work and our family life. And I mentioned in your bio that you deal with self leadership and so I’m curious to know how that actually plays a role in the healing process. And yeah, we’re going to start there and then I got a follow up question, but we’ll start there.
Craig Perra
Yeah, no, great question. So self leadership is a term that comes from at least these two places that I’ll talk about. So first is from a professional development leadership training, positive psychology, this notion of making proactive decisions, owning the outcome, you know, responsibility for what’s happening in your life. So there’s the leadership aspect of self leadership. That’s also a term that has been embraced by the internal family systems model. And that’s Essentially an evidence based, neuroscientifically sound behavior change modality referenced in popular culture in the Pixar movie Inside out, which is essentially leading the different parts of you to create positive outcomes. So for example, in our betrayed trauma work, there’s a part that maybe gets angry and feels resentful for the choices that in my line of work that the husband made, to lie, to cheat, to know, keep a secret porn life. And so it’s, it’s essentially leading those parts to create positive outcomes. And it’s a, it’s a term that I love. It really is on the positive side. And, and I, that’s my thing. I really try to focus on the positive side, strengthen the positive to, you know, strengthen the negative. So that’s, that’s basically what that term means.
Gloria Grace Rand
Well, I, I appreciate that and I love the example of, of Inside out, you know, that wonderful movie too, that I think that that helps to make things a little bit more relatable. So I appreciate you sharing that. So what’s one practical technique that someone could start implementing today with regards to self leadership in I, I guess maybe either of those formats or both.
Craig Perra
So before the technique, it’s really important to understand that in the internal family systems model and using basic self leadership principles that, let’s take for an example, a spouse who is angry at her husband for the choices he’s made, destroyed the family, kept sexual secrets, there is a deep, deep, deep sense of betrayal, trauma. And there’s often a resentful part, there’s often an angry part. And, and before we get to the technique, the insight that I want to share is that these parts, although perceived as bad or destructive or, or harmful to a, A, you know, a healthy reunion, the reality is that these parts are trying to protect you. In fact, the name for these types of parts in the internal family systems model is a protector. So anger is a protector. Anger is trying to protect the partner from making the same mistake. Again for trusting when she shouldn’t trust, for the fear of letting her guard down. That angry part keeps her vigilant, for example. And so I, I think it’s really important to understand that this behavior, although causing distress to the central nervous system, dysregulation, high blood pressure, heart issues, over time, that’s the damage that stress and anxiety and anger can do. But they are serving a purpose and they are meeting needs. Self leadership requires you to understand the needs that these parts are meeting so you can lead that part to a healthy outcome. If that makes sense.
Gloria Grace Rand
Oh yeah, I love that, and, and, and it’s. I so appreciate you doing that to, to explain because, yeah, so often we really do think that, oh, you know, anger is this, you know, emotion that we, you know, we have, but we don’t necessarily, you know, sometimes we really do categorize it as bad, you know, and it’s like, and I know that, like, and I’m just thinking back to, to my mom that, who had a lot of anger with my dad because he was an alcoholic. And so she would, you know, naturally, you don’t like being married to someone who’s involved in that. And so she had a lot of anger. But I can, but I also understand and can appreciate how that could be a protective mechanism. I never really thought about it that way, but it really is, you know, because it is, it’s kind of, you know, protecting your heart because it’s already been wounded once and you don’t want to get it, continue to have that, you know, make it make it worse, you know, to really inflict more damage. So I appreciate that. Thank you so much. So how can then someone start kind of moving into, you know, using self leadership to say, okay, yes, I know I’m angry and I’m trying to protect myself, but I don’t want to stay anger angry because as you said, it can really cause a lot of physical harm to the body.
Craig Perra
Yes. And so just like leadership requires us to lead, we might lead Johnny on our team and Karen on our team very differently. They have different needs, they have different desires, different goals. So I’m going to lead these two people on my team very differently. And one of the first things that people can do, which is a wonderful technique and it sounds absolutely crazy, but there is a lot of data to support the efficacy or effectiveness of talking to yourself in the third person. So one of the techniques that we have, and let’s say we’ve got a partner who’s resentful or angry or they’re constantly ruminating, they’re wondering, is he doing this, is he doing that? That part is trying to protect them. And, and one of the first things we do before we get to, you know, and there are the techniques and the mindfulness and interrupting, but at a deeper level, talking, as crazy as this sounds, engaging in dialogue with this angry part, for example, in literally journaling, like you’re writing a play, like you’re talking to a separate entity, you’re talking to this part of you, just like in the Pixar movie Inside out, in learning anger. Okay, this isn’t the first time we’ve been angry. Where did you come from? And then inevitably, Gloria, anger is a learned behavior. It’s something so. So all that family of origin work that many of your clients have done in therapy, but they don’t know what to do with that information. Now they’ve got a container to understand how was anger trained to protect me? Where did you come from? Anger? And what happens in this dialogue is number one, by personifying this part of you, it creates a little distance and a little understanding and reinforces the notion that I’m in charge. This is a part I’m going to get curious instead of angry, resentful, and feel shame because I’m not supposed to feel this way, even though I know it’s making things worse, it’s pushing my husband away. And let’s say in this example where he’s actually doing the right things and I want to move towards him, but I can’t because anger is protecting you. Anger is not going to let you let that guard down. And when he does something wrong, you’re going to let him know about it. And so this conversation not only brings structure to the internal dialogue that people are having in their heads, which can be really, really, really self destructive, it begins to introduce this principle of self leadership that I’m in charge, not the part I’m in charge. The self is the center of the internal family systems model, the core, the soul, the part that isn’t stained or corrupted. It’s just that essence inside us. And so that’s the essence of self leadership is leading from that place of essence versus a reactive, defensive, you know, dysregulated, you know, place of reactivity. So in summary, because I have a tendency to, you know, give, give long answers in summary, talk to the part, engage the part in conversation, just like you’re writing a two person play, find out where anger comes from. And then the second question would be, what does this angry part need?
Gloria Grace Rand
Right. Yes. I knew I had to feel. Like I said, you’re gonna say, it’s like, yeah, you’re like, what? Because I’m just envisioning myself, you know, doing this. It’s like, okay, so what, what do you want? You know, what, what can I do for you? What, what is, what’s going on? And you know, and how can I help? Because I think it’s so important for us to have kind conversations with these parts of ourselves. And I mean, I was doing this the other day, I’m doing some work on myself where I’m looking at old Childhood patterns and a lot of emotion was coming up and I had to just kind of be, be kind to myself and compassionate and say, you know, yes, middle school was rough and you got through it and I love you. And I think it’s so important to be able to reassure ourselves. I think even when, you know, especially when we’re going through some emotional challenges like that. What do you think about that? You know, is it because I think there might be some people out there who are saying like, oh come on, really, really to have this conversation with myself, it sounds a little crazy. So what would you say to the naysayers out there?
Craig Perra
I would say you’re right, it definitely does sound crazy. I’m not going to disagree with you there. However, this isn’t, you know, crazy, Craig, you know, making something up. This model, the parts work has been around for 2,000 years. The internal family systems model. There’s three to four year waiting list to get into this evidence based training which I feel blessed to have completed. This is a neuroscientifically sound model and you don’t need neuroscience to say, you know what? There is a part of me that gets angry. And sometimes that anger, you know, doesn’t accomplish the desired objective to protect me. In fact it makes me feel worse. Or there is a part of me that feels insecure or resentful and can’t stop thinking about whatever it is that I’m thinking about. And when you step back and realize all of these quote unquote bad parts are trying to help because almost all behavior is need seeking behavior that trigger that you have the thought that you get the action that you take when you feel your top’s about to burst off. All trained condition responses, all need seeking behavior. And not only is it neuro scientifically sound or supported by the evidence, it is practical because we do talk to ourselves. And this model brings some structure to it. And for those of you who are skeptical, pause and listen and you’ll find yourself having a conversation with yourself throughout the day. When you’re driving in the car, you’re reacting to something someone close to you does, like your husband or partner. We’re having these conversations anyway. And it does feel like a part of me takes over and that part of you that takes over instead of it being bad or wrong. No, that part is trying to meet a need the way it was trained to meet a need. And when you embrace that reality that there are need, no bad parts, no bad habits, bad outcomes. Absolutely. There’s plenty of bad outcomes. But from A neuroscience perspective, it’s not good or bad. Our habits are trained, conditioned responses. Our environmental training that sits on top of a biological reality. And talking to these parts helps you have compassion for yourself. It helps you discover the true nature of what that part is trying to accomplish to protect you. And through that conversation, you learn, okay, I understand getting angry. Screaming, yelling, swearing, throwing things, whatever it might be, is your way of doing it, but is there another way that we can protect our hearts that doesn’t have the impact, for example, that anger has on the body, which is always a net negative because you feel physically bad. And the cortisol and the adrenaline and the stress and the anxiety and the dysregulation that takes one to two, sometimes three days to recover from. So, yeah, open your mind, open your heart, and start talking to yourself. And I promise, I can almost guarantee that just about, for everyone listening, there will be a voice that responds and like, okay, now you’re looking at me now, you know, and there’ll be a response. There will be a response.
Gloria Grace Rand
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I know probably that some. Some folks out there who may be listening to this are. Are familiar with the. The idea of, like, the shadow, you know, that we have the shadow side to us. And, and that’s really kind of what you’re talking about. And, and I know people say that, oh, you know, the shadow side is bad, but as you’re pointing out, it’s not. It’s really is. It’s part of who we are, and it is this way of being able to help us. It’s so. It is. I love that you said, you know, be curious and ask. Ask questions about it, because that’s. That’s the key to help you be able to start unpacking some of this. So I want. I’m curious. I’m curious to find out how then exactly can, let’s say, say, mindfulness work, especially in maybe moments when we’re getting triggered, you know, maybe, you know, even though we are. Say we’re. We’re trying to, you know, have this better relationship with this person, but, you know, because again, you know, we’re human and they’re going to maybe do something that’s going to be, you know, not quite what we wanted them to do. And so how can we. Is there way. What kind of ways can we be able to sort of, you know, nip this in the bud before we totally fly off the handle?
Craig Perra
Yeah, I’m going to give the advice, Gloria, but I want to share one teeny, tiny story. I Had ruptured my brachial plexus. About eight years ago, I was in the worst pain of my life. I thought I was going to die. I have abused drugs in my past. I started getting pill triggers, and then I started getting heroin triggers, because what’s the difference? It’s all the same big fart, you know, like this stupid rationale that only a drug addict can do. And I’m in excruciating pain. And I Talked to a PhD colleague of mine, and I told him about my pain. And I’m expecting to get some big answer and some science and some, you know, here are the five steps. And he says, craig, you teach this. I know what you teach. I listen to your podcast. All you have to do is breathe and practice gratitude. Gloria. He could see the look on my face. I thought that was the stupid advice I ever heard. Even knowing what I know I needed. I needed something to do. Anyway, he sent me to a chronic pain program. I studied in that chronic pain program for three months. Hardcore science. The end result, Breathe and practice gratitude. It was. It was. And I remember calling him back and saying, hey, Ben. And Ben, you know, I’m going to share this with him. So, hi, Ben. Thank you again. It. What mindfulness does the. When you get dysregulated, you’re essentially your trigger response plan. You’re using your awareness of the triggers, of the thoughts, of the physiological reaction to do something else. And one of the most effective things that you can do. And I know you know this glorious. I’m reinforcing a lesson I heard you teach. Breathe. There is magic in the breath. The more you read about it, the more you learn about it. There’s a great book out there called Breathe. I forget the author’s name. And it’s basically like 200 pages of why this is ridiculously important and the science behind it. And. And they’re still trying to figure out why it works so much. A nice slow inhale, a nice slow exhale has. Does wonders. And I know it’s such an oversimplified answer, and I know sometimes I was tired of hearing this answer, quite frankly. And I taught this answer to clients when I was in pain. And I needed to go through that scientific step by step around the science of gratitude, the science of mindfulness. And so literally stopping and breathing and focusing on what’s happening in your body. Get out of your head into your body. What does anxiety, stress, anger, shame feel like? And what happens when you do that? The space between your thoughts grows. You’re Less likely to attach to those negative thoughts that we’ve been trained and conditioned ourselves to attach to because we learned at some point in our lives they were serving us. They don’t. So that’s a long way of saying breathe and practice gratitude. Gratitude for it. And it’s not like it’s not all, you know, someone, someone starving in a third world country. I shouldn’t feel this way. I’m so weak and pathetic because here I am upset over this when these horrors are going on. No, that’s gratitude as a sword. That’s like a sword in the chest. That’s not the gratitude. Gratitude is perspective. Okay, wait a minute. Do I have food? Do I have shelter? Do I have clothing? Am I able to access healthcare? Do I have people around me who love me? Let me, let me, let me, let me step back, let me through that breath, step back to a 5,000ft and say, okay, wait a minute, what do I need to do right now to emotionally regulate in a way that’s not good for him? I’m talking about for the partner. Now that’s good for her self care, her self interest and effectively leading her, her parts. So that’s the power of mindfulness, scientifically proven to reduce depression, reduce anxiety, reduce ptsd, reduce the stress level, cortisol increase well being. And as you know, the list goes on and on and on and on. That’s how powerful it is. It is absolutely life changing and you’ll find people out there packaging it in different ways. And like I had to do the science program, which was an amazing program by Dr. David Hanscom, who wrote the book Back in Control. I have to give him a shout out because it changed my life.
Gloria Grace Rand
Well, I thank you for sharing all of that. And, and you’re right, I mean it is, it does sound so simple. But it’s, but it’s not because, and, and I’ve had, I know I’ve had other guests on the show who’ve talked about this as well, but it, but it is so important for us to really just pause, you know, just pause and breathe because we get so wanting to react. But if you can just take that breath and just because it gives, it really does give yourself a chance to get from. What is it? I guess away from the limbic part of the brain or something like that, into the prefrontal cortex or something like that. Don’t quote me on this stuff. I’m trying to remember. I do, I do love reading about the brain and how it works. I need to, I need to Read one of my books again because it’s been a couple years since I’ve, since I’ve done it. How to Make a Great Brain great. Or how to Make It.
Yeah, something like that. It was a really excellent book, but it’s. Yeah, it’s so important. So thank you for sharing that. And you mentioned a little bit about your, your journey. So can you maybe go in? Because it sounds like since you already had, you talked about, you know, that you were, you were when you broke this whatever bone that was. But, but you already were doing your podcast. So, so what, what led you to become a, you know, transformative coach and what, what was the, you know, kind of the catalyst for your journey to, to be able to. Because you mentioned that, you know, you, you’ve had some self destructive habits of your, of your own in the past. So that might help some of our listeners today to understand that.
Craig Perra
Yeah, I was hospitalized almost 15 years ago after trying to hurt myself after getting fired from my second job. Within 18 months, it was a terrible low point. I was acting out with drugs, alcohol, prostitutes, pornography. It was a full blown bender. I didn’t feel like I had any worth. I felt that my wife couldn’t stand me, which was not the case at all. It was all in my head. But I am standing here or sitting here in front of you today because at my lowest point, my wife, instead of abandoning me, which she had every right to do, well, first it was self preservation. I got to get this guy back working. Because she was a stay at home mom, my wife Michelle saved my life. She showed me compassion at that low point. She showed me empathy. And even though I knew that she was leaving because she was clear about that, you get back on your feet. I’m not doing this anymore. I said to myself, every second that I am in this woman’s presence, I can use it as an opportunity to show her that I’m growing, that I’m learning. I’m no longer blaming her for all the problems in the relationship. Like the low point, Gloria was so. It was so big and so low. And it’s exactly what I needed because it allowed me to just shatter these illusions that I had been convincing myself that she’s the problem, the kids are the problem, the job’s the problem. No, none of that was the problem. I was the problem. I was broken in so many different ways. And, you know, that kindness saved my life. Then she had this crazy idea that, you know, we should help people. And for the past 13 years, we’ve been doing that and you know, we just celebrated 26 years of marriage and we’ve never been happier. But she’s my ride or die. And I feel really blessed to have such a strong partner by my side. And you would love her. You would absolutely love her. She, she’s, you know, I. Very practical, you know, very, very, very practical, oriented in her guidance and. But she saved my life.
Gloria Grace Rand
Well, you are definitely blessed to have somebody like that in your life to, to have helped you. And what would you say to somebody out there who maybe is in a different situation where they, they know that they have bottomed out, but they don’t have that person that they can count on. So where would you advise them to turn?
Craig Perra
Find it. Find that person. Whether it be a friend, a mentor, a support group, an online forum, you know, there’s a millions of wonderful places where you can find like minded individuals. The opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety, it’s connection. And that’s one of these phrases that has a whole bunch of science underneath it that prop it up. And you need to get out of that isolation. You need other perspectives. You need mentorship, guidance, leadership. If you can’t find somebody, you know, get a therapist, pay somebody, whatever it is. We are the sum of the five people closest to us. And I can proudly say I’m a hell of a great person because I know I’m surrounded by really great people. But that wasn’t always the case. Find that community, no matter what it takes. Strengthen that community. Volunteer at a charity. Gloria, there’s so many little things, and it doesn’t have to be the big thing, but lots of little things add up to big things. And that’s what I found. It wasn’t some, oh, look, now I’m doing this, everything’s better. It was the accumulation. I’m taking better care of myself. I’m connected with friends, I’m reestablishing connections with family members. I’m involved in my community, like I’m focusing on my spirituality. All those little things add up. And it is so much easier and absolutely critical to have someone by your side to help mentor you and support you.
Gloria Grace Rand
Oh yeah, I agree with you 100%. It’s interesting. I just started reading a book today called Community and I’m looking forward to diving deep into it, but it really is, and my word for the year is connection. So it’s so important. And this was something that I think we learned the hard way during the pandemic about how important it is for people to be able to be Connected. When you are on your own and, you know, living by yourself, it’s really easy to be able to start, start down the wrong road and start doing, you know, other habits that aren’t as healthy for you, shall we say, as, as, you know, eating, eating well and taking care of your body and getting plenty of exercise and plenty of sleep and all, all of these lovely things that we know maybe intellectually that we need to do. But sometimes we get sucked into, you know, the world and, you know, and, and the drama that some people have. Yeah, life, life happens and it can, can knock us off a little bit. But, but, but having support and I support makes all the difference in the world. What’s, what’s one unexpected lesson maybe about human behavior that your work has taught you?
Craig Perra
Yeah, I love this question. And here it is. All behavior is need seeking behavior. The addiction, the anger, the lashing out, the defensiveness, the shutting down, the resentment, all of it. When that finally clicked in me, Gloria and I learned, and I remember in my internal family systems training that I was in, and it was the most tense, valuable training I’ve ever taken in my life. And that’s, you know, 20 plus years as an attorney, as an executive before I started coaching. I remember the lady almost as a matter of fact said her name was Cece. And she said, you do know the addict part is trying to help you, right? In the whole training, you could see everybody’s mouth just dropped because there were a number of people in there who struggled, you know, with addiction themselves, or there were partners of someone who struggled with addiction themselves. And that moment represented a monumental shift where I got away from right, wrong, good, bad, bad outcomes. Make no mistake, there’s terrible outcomes. But that addict part is helping you escape, helping you and providing you with a release. It’s helping you with stress and anxiety. It’s a reward. It’s meeting, helping you get rid of pain. It’s meeting needs. So all behavior is need seeking behavior. There’s a couple of exceptions that clients have come up with over the years. But what if I’m hallucinating and I’m flailing my arms? You got me. Okay, that one. What if I’m having a heart attack and I swing my arm and knock over a cup? Okay, you got me then. But when we’re talking, you know, non medical or, you know, non psychosis, it’s an important reflection point. Challenge this as you hear this. No, no. My partner’s resentment couldn’t be meeting a need. That’s bad. It’s bad it’s bad. It’s not bad. It’s creating a bad outcome. But understanding each of our parts has a job. And that job. They’ve been training for that job, you know, since most of that training happened in childhood, because of the. That’s our developmental years, these patterns become our reality. These jobs become our identity. And when you step back and say, wait a minute, instead of looking at this like, good or bad, I’m going to get curious about it and say, what job are you trying to. What are you trying to accomplish right now? When I get angry and, well, I’m trying to protect you from getting hurt. Can’t you feel the boundary violation coming? You see it. You know it’s coming. Look, look, look over there. Over there. These parts are trying to help. And when you meet them with curiosity, in love and compassion and understanding, you get so much better outcomes. Because the other thing that I’ll learn, that I learned is you’ll always lose in a fight against yourself. How you feel about a part is how you feel about yourself, Gloria. And the combination of those three things that I shared with you were absolutely life changing for me and life changing for so many of my clients who are struggling with compulsive sexual behavior, and our partners who are struggling with deep and profound betrayal.
Gloria Grace Rand
So, yeah, that’s my answer, and it’s a good one. I appreciate it. And I will say, too, is that. And then now this is. My belief is that I. I do feel that some. That we. We make an agreement sometimes to come into this life and. And seek out sometimes these people and things that can hold a mirror up to us so that we can really take a look at. Okay, this is. This is triggering me to react in a certain way. Why is that happening? And sometimes things will happen again and again until we are willing to do that deep work to figure out what is really causing this and that. And that is when that healing can start to happen. So that then you don’t go into repeating those behaviors or seeking out people who are going to maybe, you know, do that. Because I know sometimes, you know, you’ll. You’ll hear. And I’m sure you probably have experienced this in your work with clients. It’s like, why do I keep meeting the same man over and over again, you know, who keeps doing this stuff to me? And it’s like, okay, so what’s the common denominator there? It’s you, right? So have you. Have you run into that? I’m curious, and how have you. I helped your clients in that, yeah.
Craig Perra
No, I absolutely have. When you get up high enough through awareness and you’re looking down, we’re repeating the same conflict patterns, the same escape patterns. We’re creatures of habit. We need habits to survive. We couldn’t find function. And I wouldn’t be able to grab my coffee mug if it wasn’t for habits. I wouldn’t be able to respond to your question if it wasn’t for habits. We need them to survive. But when you step up, you see that the same patterns are repeating themselves. And we know from attachment theory we learn to bond based upon our childhood experiences and depending upon your attachment style. It’s a difficult message because part of the behavior that is so offensive to our partner clients, it was done in secret. They were manipulated, they were tricked. So, so there, there’s that deception component to it, however, and that’s terrible. Absolutely terrible. But when they unpack their attachment style, their bonding and you know, where they didn’t set boundaries, where they, you know, are going to set boundaries going forward, where they let things slide, they were more tolerant of, you know, unhealthy behaviors. They didn’t speak their mind, they didn’t know their truth, let alone communicate it in a healthy, constructive way. And so yeah, like, like we are creatures of habit and most couples that we’ve worked with can bucket their, categorize their conflicts into three categories, sometimes four, rarely five. But, but we are repeating these same patterns over and over again. And when you treat the underlying wound, wounds and learn how to treat those wounds going forward because as you know, it’s not a one time event, that emotional catharsis doesn’t just happen and everything’s fine.
Gloria Grace Rand
That’s right.
Craig Perra
Although we’re, we’re, we’re led to believe that, you know, through our therapy that aha, we did it. It doesn’t work like that. But when you learn to lead your parts and to lead from a place of curiosity, compassion, love, then you start making better choices. And sometimes that choice for many of our partner clients is to stay, then that’s the right decision for them. For others, it’s to go. And that’s the right decision for them. And that is an incredibly empowering place to be when you are choosing.
Gloria Grace Rand
Oh yes, absolutely. I, yeah. Feels, yeah, it feels like you’re, you are, you finally have your life. You’re, you’re, you’re reclaiming control over your life instead of letting life lead you. So yeah, that’s so good. Is there anything else that I should have asked you about that you know, in regards to, you know, kind of healing some of our wounds or anything else that or any other one last piece of wisdom you want to leave our audience with today.
Craig Perra
Yeah. The deeper the wound, the greater the healing. In other words, that when you dive in to all that ugly and messy and insecurity and shame and not being good enough, the output of that is self leadership. It’s. You are leading your parts to healthy outcomes, the anger parts being effectively managed. She’ll alert you when a boundary’s being crossed. She’s going to alert you when, you know, when someone’s, you know, trying to get over on you and, and, you know, the parts don’t go away. But that’s the essence of self leadership. And so your greatest pain becomes your greatest teacher.
Gloria Grace Rand
And that is a really hopeful, hopeful thing to take away from this. I, I so appreciate that because, yeah, it can seem, you know, like, you know, we’ve, we’ve talked about here, being in the throes of things can be so frustrating, make you angry. But to know that there is hope that you can heal from this and, and have it be that greater, greatest healing. I love that. That’s amazing. Now, I know people listening to this are going to want to know more about you and want to know you, and you mentioned you have, you have a podcast as well. So how can, how can people get in touch with you if you want, if they want to connect with you?
Craig Perra
Sure. So every major place there’s a podcast, you can search for my name, Craig Perra, and the name of the podcast is called Sex Afflictions and Porn Addictions. Many of our clients are men that struggle with compulsive sexual behavior and partners who are awakening to that reality. And if you want more information about me, my wife Michelle, and the program that we run, Visit mindful habit help.com and all the information there. And when you reach out, you call. It’s going to come to us. At least the text message will come to us. We have someone answering the phone. But very quickly you’re going to get connected with us and we’ll do our best to point you in the right direction.
Gloria Grace Rand
All right, excellent. Well, I will be sure and have that in the show notes for those of you who are listening and in the YouTube description as well. So if you happen to be watching this on YouTube, you can, you can just go down to the description. There’s lots of information down there. So thank you so much for, for being with us today and, and sharing all of your wonderful wisdom and, and I, you know, we’re we’re definitely in alignment. So I love, I love talking with like minded people and sharing, sharing this information because it’s good to hear it from lots of different people because not everybody resonates with the same people. So I appreciate you.
Craig Perra
That’s right.
Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah.
Craig Perra
Yeah. I appreciate you too, Gloria. Thank you so much for having me. A great honor.
Gloria Grace Rand
And I do want to thank all of you for listening and for watching. I hope you did receive some value from this episode. And if you’re not subscribed already, I encourage you to do so on your favorite podcast platform. And I think that’s gonna, that’s gonna do it for me this week. So until we meet again, as always, I encourage you to go out and live fully, love deeply, and engage authentically.
