Redefining Life After 50: What Is the Third Age?
Gloria Grace: Namaste. Redefining life after 50 often involves totally reinventing yourself. Maybe that’s finding a new purpose for your life, for your business, and achieving personal fulfillment. Although along the way. Yeah, that’s what I’m trying to say, achieve your personal fulfillment. Because you know, what the heck, we might as well. And today’s guest is perfectly aligned in that because he’s going to be offering some tips on how you can really maximize well being and satisfaction by navigating the social, economic and psychological changes that occur in women over 50. So joining us in just a moment is Gregg Lunceford. He is a certified financial planner, a managing director and wealth advisor at Mesirow, and he has spent well over two decades, I think, advising adults over 50. So not only that, he’s also an academic researcher, he’s got a PhD and he’s the author of Exit from Work, what will the new you look like? And since we are all about designing your life your way, this is going to be an awesome conversation. I just know it. So I’m going to bring you up here right now and welcome you, Gregg, to the podcast.
Gregg Lunceford: Thank you, Gloria. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you.
Gloria Grace: Well, I’m really looking forward to this because you’ve got, from what I’ve been reading about you, it really seems like you are dialed in to helping, of course, men and women. And one thing I saw is that you describe life after 50 as a third age. And I was wondering if you could start there with maybe explaining like what does that look like for women who especially, you know, they’ve spent decades defining themselves through careers, maybe being a mom or a caregiver. So what does that, what does that really look like?
Gregg Lunceford: Well, thank you for the question. I spend most of my professional career working in wealth management, where we spend a lot of time counseling people on what happens at retirement age. And how this all started was I came to understand that people were having a challenge with retirement transition. When I first started my career, it was viewed as an economic choice. And then I later came to find out when we got to the 2008 financial crisis that there were a number of people that were coming in my office with early exit packages who were more than financially ready to exit out. But something else was taking place that we didn’t understand. And it was even more troubling to them on how to make this leap. And what I came to realize was it wasn’t the financial piece, it’s the other piece, the well being piece, which we didn’t know, because there wasn’t a lot in our industry that spoke to it at the time. Long story short, I independently went to Case Western Reserve University where I received a PhD where I did retirement studies. But they were really more so through the lens of late stage career transition. What happens to a person when they reach this age of 50 plus more so than looking at how it happened traditionally, where retirement was looked through the lens of gerontology and it was really a study of old age.
Gregg Lunceford: And what we found is that this is a global phenomenon. Why is it a global phenomenon? Because no matter where you are on the planet, people are just living longer. And so when you put it in the context of I have a life expectancy according to the IRS, when they’re calculating your required minimum distribution of about age 90, if you were 50, 60, you are no longer venturing into old age. You are actually middle aged. But make people feel as though that they must go into these old age behaviors. What I found from my research is that if you look in other societies around the globe, what there is recognition is we no longer go from our youth to middle age, then to old age, but because we are living longer, we now have this 20 year life bonus. What it really is, is a transition into an undefined period after middle age. So you’re going from youth to middle age to what is called the third age and then into old age. And the third age is a 20, could be a 30 year life bonus where you get to define life on your own terms.
Gregg Lunceford: And I think it’s important, and what I try to do in my work is to get people to understand that this age can be the best part of your life. But you have to prepare for it. And many people don’t even recognize it exists. But it does exist. And it could be a joyous, joyous time for men and women. And there are some things that make it a little different for both. But it should be the best part of your life. Not something that you dread because you’re worried about being labeled as old.
Gloria Grace: Yeah, it is interesting because it’s like I know how I grew up. Okay, I’m over 60 now and I do remember the, you know, this idea of retirement is, you know, you retire at 65 and then you go play golf somewhere or whatever. But of course, baby boomers have redefined that. And as you say, you know, life expectancy has played into this as well. That it’s not like it was, you know, 50, even 100 years ago. So why do so many — and I’m guessing it’s also men, but as women maybe are struggling to embrace this time of life and really looking at it, I think, as an opportunity to do something different and not think of it as, you know, okay, ready to go the old folks home?
The History of Retirement — and Why the Word Itself Is the Problem
Gregg Lunceford: Well, first of all, we have to look at the history of retirement a little bit, right? And retirement, when you look at the word, and I think it’s an ugly word because the root word is tired. And that’s how the retirement system started. It was really this negotiation between management and labor where management wanted younger employees and labor — the labor unions were trying to protect older employees who were given a lot of years of loyalty. And so this is when we were in more of a manufacturing society, and so you were on the assembly line. And so they wanted the younger employee because the younger employee can move faster. This is management science.
Gregg Lunceford: When it was first developing and the older employee didn’t view this exit from work as this joyous thing, they viewed it as, you’re labeling me, and my value is being taken away. So a lot of people go into this period and they feel displaced because you’ve given all of your life to creating an identity around work for a lot of people. And kind of think about it. My question to you is, when was the first time someone asked you what you wanted to be that you recall? You can share that with me if you can, Gloria. But my point being is when you start at a very elementary age, someone is guiding you towards building an identity, right? Then you get a guidance counselor, and they’re guiding you to building your identity. And then you become a young employee, and there’s probably a mentor that’s building you to develop an identity. And then all of a sudden, no one is investing in helping you build your identity anymore. They’re leaving you on your own to try to figure something out. Right. And that’s another signal that they don’t really view this thing as a positive thing.
Gregg Lunceford: And so what happens is you got this development of a bucket list. It was basically, well, you should be happy. You don’t have to work anymore. And here are these things, and we don’t even know if you like them or not, but you’re supposed to go off, you’re supposed to volunteer, you’re supposed to get all these things done as quickly as you possibly can because we don’t view you as having much longevity. And that may have been true, you know, 100 years ago, because when the Social Security system was first started, the average female life expectancy was 61, 64 years. The average male expectancy was 61 years. To get this payment or go into this lifestyle at age 65, very few people did. Now it’s easily achievable, and getting to 100 is not a problem. Yet we’re still thinking in this older mindset of I have to do what society has dictated a person at this age is supposed to do. And that’s not the case at all.
Gloria Grace: Yeah. And it was just having me think of yeah, now I can see why the Social Security system — there’s so much angst about, you know, is it going to be around anymore? Because it really wasn’t designed to — not designed at all.
Gregg Lunceford: That’s correct.
Gloria Grace: Oh, man. So I appreciate that. And yeah, it is interesting. I didn’t work with guidance counselors, though, for some reason. I don’t know when I was in high school, I was oblivious. I had enough stuff going on in my family life that didn’t kind of work out that way. And I guess that’s why I’ve been sort of continually, I think, reinventing myself, maybe even every 10 to 20 years anyway. And that’s probably something you found that people do as well.
Gregg Lunceford: Well, not as much. And so for people like yourself that have had a lifetime or a career span of advocating for themselves, this is easier for them. For people who have gone, and many boomers did, gone into a system where you were told career success is, you know, you get a promotion every other year and you get a 3% raise and you wait for someone to help you find your next move or your next direction. This is very challenging because at some point in time around 50, the level of investment in nurturing who you are and who you become — with your identity, your strongest identity, for a lot of people, your career identity — that guidance goes away. And so retirement becomes, or third age transition becomes, this very hard thing to do because who’s giving you any guidance? And you’ve had it before. So it is probably the scariest time in someone’s career because you have to make your most, your biggest independent decision. You no longer have that mentor or guide around you. And as well, for many people, because of fear of ageism — if you’re wrong, you can’t come back. So this is an irreversible decision.
Non-Financial Barriers to Thriving in Midlife Transition
Gloria Grace: Yeah, it definitely is very challenging. And I guess maybe that brings me to something I’m curious to find out because I know part of it is, of course, we want to be able to, as you said, even at the beginning, you were talking with people who were financially set, but were still having this challenge with what were they going to do with themselves? So what have you found in your research and work with clients? What are the biggest non-financial barriers that keep adults, once they hit over 50, from really thriving in retirement or a life transition? And how do you help them move through that?
Gregg Lunceford: I think the biggest thing is most people — and this is kind of on our industry, which I believe is changing right now — most people, when they start thinking about this transition from middle age, they tend to only think of it in a financial context. And not that that’s not important, but when we had shorter lifespans — excuse me — when we had shorter lifespans, the most dominant factor, and it was a highly dominant factor, if you were ready, is if you could financially afford to live the rest of your life independently. Correct. And it’s not that the financial factor is not a big factor. It still is the most dominant, but it’s not as dominant as it once was. And so one of the things that I ask people to focus on is what is really the meaning of work, especially if you have a strong work identity.
Gregg Lunceford: And I don’t think it’s till the end of a career that people start to recognize the non-financial pieces of work. And these are the pieces that you really need to work on figuring out how to replace them. Just like we spent all this time figuring out how to replace the paycheck. I don’t think people spend a lot of time thinking about how to replace the three most important things I think that work gives.
The Three Things Work Gives You — and How to Replace Them
Gregg Lunceford: The first one is work gives you psychological success. Who doesn’t like the fact that if they do something well, they’re acknowledged for it and known for it and they get recognition. So you need to figure out what will make you feel as though you’re adding value. You have meaning and purpose once you walk out of your employer’s office. So that’s one.
Gregg Lunceford: The second one is work provides socialization for us. Even if we don’t like everyone we work with, the interactions that we have with people, the growth that we get from team building, talking to people, even the people we don’t like, give us something to laugh about when we go to the cafeteria. Can you believe what happened again today. So there is a lot to be taken from the socialization. And when you walk out of this phase of life, it’s pretty lonely when you don’t have friends or people to engage in. Social relationships are so very important.
Gregg Lunceford: And then the third thing that work does for us is it allows us to structure time. Even though you hate getting up when the alarm clock goes off, getting going somewhere and being able to have your time accounted for where you’re doing something that’s positive and meaningful versus being bored all day is a very important thing. So structure and time, having positive relationships and having things that make you feel as though you have purpose and you’re making a difference is very important. In addition to the financial aspects that come at work.
Gloria Grace: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that 100%. And yeah, we don’t really think about, I think, all of those positive aspects of work. I mean, especially I’m thinking the socialization part because yeah, you know, you can develop friendships with people, with coworkers. And then when you’re not going to that 9 to 5 job anymore, then it’s like, oh, yeah. And I think that’s especially — I know I hear that from just interacting with some of the women that I socialize with — that it’s like, it’s hard to make friends as you get older, and it can be lonely. And that’s one of the reasons why I started my own community for women over 50, you know, to try to provide that support. Because also I live alone as well. And so I know it’s nice at times, I do like to be on my own, but then I also like to be able to hear somebody else’s voice. So it’s one of the reasons I like doing interviews.
Gregg Lunceford: Absolutely.
Designing Your Third Age Identity: Freedom, Purpose & Meaningful Play
Gregg Lunceford: So the thing is where people could get to that realization that there are these other things, and it becomes scary of how I replace them. First of all, what I encourage people to do is these are things that we should be thinking about three years, five years out. And there’s some things you can do to help with that and then also recognizing that this is not the period to be feared. But this could be the best part of your life. How could this period of time where I’m losing social relationships or going into a situation where I’m not acknowledged as much, how could that be? The third age can be the best part of your life simply because you get to define your terms — and think about it. When else in life have you been able to define your terms? When you were a child, you were not legally able to define your terms, nor were you wise enough to define your terms. When you were in your early adulthood or even your midlife, you had responsibilities for other people who was raising a family or being a caregiver for a friend or elder family member.
Gregg Lunceford: And I understand that some people still have aging parent responsibilities, but the third age is the first time where you have nobody to answer to, no one to answer to other than yourself. You’re wiser than you’ve ever been because you have plenty of life experiences. You should probably have more resources than you ever, you’ve ever had, either through social capital or financial capital. And you can define this to be whatever you want to do, whoever you want to be. So developing a third age identity should be fun, it should be exciting. This should be something that causes you to thrive. But we don’t have this system in place that forces us to think about it the way that guidance counselor was forcing you to think about what do you want to do after high school? Or someone was asking what do you want to do when you leave the military, you don’t have this forced interaction. And so the hardest part is the onus is on you to create this check for yourself to make sure that you’re ready.
Gregg Lunceford: And there’s other things that you can do, like working with the financial advisor to make sure you’re financially ready and then also working with the life coach to make sure your finances can support the things that you’re thinking about. But to go into this stage without any consideration at all causes about 40% of the population that fully retires to have some form of decline in health. And that’s not what we want.
Gloria Grace: Yeah. And that’s why I do the work that I do. Because one thing, and I tell this to people — I think I’ve even been telling this to my daughter-in-law now — is that I have found that every decade I’ve gone through now has gotten better. And it is something that I’m really happy with. I mean, yeah, okay, my life isn’t 100% perfect at the moment, but it’s really darn good. I’m living where I’m living. I’m near the beach and I’m making friends. I’m frankly enjoying — some days it’s been the best time I’ve had since I was back in my 20s, when I was newly out on my own, you know, had left the nest and was exploring, making new friends and things like that.
Gregg Lunceford: Right. And I think it can be more freedom in this regard, especially if you start talking about boomers, especially older boomers. We tend to have grown up — and I’m an early Xer, so I think this applies to my cohort as well. But we came along in a period of time where we were told what we ought to do. We were told your parents and your people in your community pushed you to roles in society that gave what they viewed were held in high esteem. Right. So you may have wanted to start a rock band out of your garage, but that wasn’t what was held in high esteem. You were encouraged to maybe get an accounting degree instead. And for a lot of people, they did those things. They followed that track of what you ought to do. This is the first time where you can identify what you really want to do. So developing a Third Age identity should be all about what you find invigorating, what you find is fun, because once again, you don’t have to answer to anyone else and you don’t have to be responsible for anyone else.
Gregg Lunceford: So I’m often amazed when I sit down and I talk to people and we really think through this, and they go deep in this. And these are people that have what I consider very serious responsibilities. And I say, well, what do you want to do now that you’ve thought about it? And I get things like, I want to work at Disney World. Really? I mean, you have 200 people reporting to you — you want to work at Disney World. I always wanted to be somewhere where I can sing all day and be around children. And I go, wow, just never thought of that. But that was probably a profession or something they thought was exciting at 18, and they would have pursued it. However, there was someone telling them what they ought to do. So now you get this life bonus where you can go back and figure it out.
Gregg Lunceford: So I get a lot of people to say they want to work for Disneyland or they want to have a band they gig with on the weekend, or they want to write mystery novels and books and things like that. Something so far from what you would expect them to say, but it is a different role that they want to experiment with rather than having regrets in the end. And so that’s what makes the Third Age really special, is that you can go back and course correct for anything that you’re curious about.
Gloria Grace: Yeah, that’s true. And I know I’ve experienced this too. I’m thinking back to when I first started — even just what I was going to major in in college. It was like my goal at the time, because my parents were going through a divorce, was well, what can I do to earn, and it was like, okay, I’ll major in business. Yeah, that’ll be good. I can get a good job with that. But it did not work out that way. But it is interesting that this is a really great time of choice. And this is what I want to ask you about because I feel — and I experienced this for myself even for a while too, especially after my sister died — that I didn’t quite know what I wanted to do anymore. And then also with that sometimes was okay, then I knew what I wanted to do, but I was afraid to go for that. So how do you run into that also with people, especially if they’re wanting to do something that is maybe radically different from how they just spent the past 30 years? And how do you help them if they are a little trepidatious about trying something new?
Overcoming Self-Doubt and Fear of Starting Over After 50
Gregg Lunceford: Right? So first you got to get over what is the fear, what is the hump. A lot of it is self-doubt, right? Because you were always conditioned that — I remember watching something, maybe it was The Wonder Years or something, one television show that was set in the 50s, and a guy talking to his father and his father’s like, nobody gets to choose what they enjoy doing for work. These are the things we just have to endure in life. And I think this is a different period where you get to turn that. But for a lot of people, that mindset is hard to come out of.
Gregg Lunceford: And so what I tell people, one of the things they want to do is first interview a lot of people who are already retired, get an understanding of what some of the pitfalls are and also get an understanding of what some people did to create success for themselves. Layout — you wouldn’t make a purchase of any type or go on a vacation without doing some due diligence. So you have to do some due diligence here. Then figure out how you’re going to replace these things. The other part of this is one of the biggest things is developing a retirement vision. And if you are in a relationship, it’s very important that there be a shared vision so you get to come up with who it is you want to be.
Gregg Lunceford: And I think there is a lot of encouragement that can come from understanding what people did in late stage. Benjamin Franklin was in his 80s when he signed the Declaration of Independence. Colonel Sanders was in his 70s when he had his franchise success. Even looking at current day, I mean, look at how many entertainers and things are still entertaining in their late stage career. And so it’s not that people don’t enjoy — and it could even be continuing to work. Just because someone said retirement age of 65 doesn’t mean you have to do it. If you have something that makes you fulfilled and you feel good, you’re better off trying to figure out how you can set the terms in that environment.
Gregg Lunceford: And oftentimes we feel as though we can’t set terms in environments simply because work often is a unilateral contract between us and our employer where they tell us the wage and what we have to do. Right. But there are a lot of organizations that are looking for some form of creativity because they don’t want to lose your intellectual capital as well as your institutional knowledge. And so I’ve seen people be very successful in negotiating different work structures, whether it be they become a seasonal employee that’s brought in on special projects, or that they reduce their work week from five days to three. And this time in life is really about redefining who you want to be on your own terms.
Gregg Lunceford: The thing being is, if you’re waiting for somebody to come to you with a great idea, they may have the great idea, but they may not approach you with it. We’re in a society where people are very worried about ageism. And so you may have some small and mid-sized companies out there that are very interested from a scale standpoint in what it would cost for them to have you as a human resource. They may not be able to afford 40 hours a week, but they will love you for 20 hours a week. But you’ve got to raise your hand and say I’m open. And when you come to them, you know you have to tell them the benefit to their organization. I just don’t want to be in it for 60 hours a week. But it would keep continuity and revenue flow. Here you have to go in and sell yourself, sell what you bring to the table. And I think because a lot of people view work at this stage as a binary choice, they go, I have no value to bring. I have no negotiating power. But you have a great deal of it.
Gloria Grace: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I guess that’s what leads me to — I’ve noticed because I’m active on LinkedIn, that I’ve seen this new term about fractional managers where maybe I spend one day a week at one organization, another day a week at the other organization, or I spend the three days on the beach.
Gregg Lunceford: That’s exactly right. Those are the things that you have the power to negotiate for.
Relationships and Money in Midlife: The Shared Vision Conversation
Gloria Grace: Yeah, definitely. Now, you mentioned something else which I wanted to get to because you talked briefly about relationships, and I know that relationships can shift radically during these major life transitions. I wound up separating from my husband, and I feel we get along better now that we’re not living under the same roof. I know he would still prefer me to be living with him, but I think he’s adjusted anyway. Is there — how do you deal with that in helping couples, or maybe you have one or the other partner — helping them to navigate that type of a transition as well?
Gregg Lunceford: Well, it has to be a lot of open communication. And each household is different. You have households where I’ll pay these bills and you pay those bills, and never the two should meet in terms of understanding what you have in your account or what you prepare for. And so what I try to do is encourage people early on. Division of labor is perfectly fine, but there also has to be a communication so that you are going for the same — you’re going for a shared goal. And believe it or not, there are about 40% of people in relationships that don’t even talk about things like money.
Gregg Lunceford: And I know you’re going, well, this is about emotions. You know, money tends to be the number one reason why relationships fail. So you have to have the conversation. But as you’re having a conversation, money also has purpose, too. We save these things to give us financial security or to be able to have an adventure or something that we really want to do that we’re curious about. And so having this shared vision about who you want to be, when you want to do that, how you want to do it, is part of the global discussion. And that’s why a financial advisor ends up writing a book about exit from work and talking about psychology and sociology and gerontology and all these things — because they go hand in hand. You can’t do one without the other.
Gregg Lunceford: And so in terms of building the shared vision, the first one is you have to be on the same page. And I am always amazed when I am starting to work with someone and one partner comes in and we start the conversation. I always insist — can I meet the other half of this relationship? Oh, they’re fine, they’re not worried about anything. They know I’ve got this taken care of. Like, they know they’ll be taken care of in life from a financial standpoint. I said, please, can they come in. And I bring the other spouse in or the other partner in and I’ll say, you know, tell me what you think. And they go, I am scared out of my mind. I know my partner has all these things, but I’m not quite sure how they work or what they mean.
Gregg Lunceford: And I think this is very important, especially for women, because what I often tell women that I work with is if you let the man make the decision, statistically you’re going to live longer. So you are going to have to live with the decision he made and it may not be right for you. Right. And you have to step up and be part of this shared vision and execution. And so I think first of all it has to be, you’re thinking about things and once you lay out a plan and a vision, we tend to self-actualize in making those things happen. And this is what the difference is between an ideal and a vision. Did you sit down and draw the outline of how you get from step A to step B to step C? Once you carefully define those things out, set time frames around them, we tend to motivate ourselves to chase them. But if it is undefined, then all it is is a good thought and we don’t execute. And then comes the frustration and the confusion.
Gloria Grace: Yeah, and that’s not a good recipe to follow. As we said at the beginning of this interview, this is a time of life that we should be enjoying and finding things that fulfill us. And that means taking some responsibility and figuring out how to manage finances and to do it together if you are doing that together. Especially because you never know — things can happen on a dime.
Gregg Lunceford: Proactive. Right. And the question is, how does this make you feel? Yes, I follow what societal norms were for my parents and grandparents. This means that I’m supposed to go home and we’re supposed to go on a few vacations a year and play with grandchildren in the evening and in the day, go to the senior center and play shuffleboard and bingo. How does that make you feel? For a lot of people it’s a lot of fun. That’s great. For other people, it makes them feel as though they’re isolated.
Gregg Lunceford: Right. And this is why having these discussions are very important in executing goals. I find that once again, to my earlier point, people who do very well and thrive at this point are doing things that are totally out of the box. They’re rediscovering what they really wanted — their 18-year-old self, 20-year-old self, 25-year-old self wanted to do — but they didn’t because they had obligations to other things and others. And they’re taking advantage of it. Because I’m going to be in this space for 20 years, so why do I have to check off a bucket list? Why don’t I redefine what makes me feel great and enjoy it. I can do the bucket list 15 years from now, but you have more time.
Gloria Grace: Yeah. And I think also a good thing to remember, and I think you touched on this earlier, is that you don’t have to be married to one decision and say you’re going to do this right now. Because maybe you try it out and maybe you do it for a while and it sort of satisfies that urge to try something new. And now it’s like, well, maybe this is why I didn’t go into this career and you can do something else.
Meaningful Play vs. Filling the Day: Finding What Lights You Up
Gregg Lunceford: Correct. So a couple things at this stage, because everyone doesn’t like lifestyle leisure and there’s nothing wrong with lifestyle leisure if leisure is right for you, go into it. But what you should be looking for at this stage is meaningful play. So this is what makes this different than your work life. In your work life, all you got to do is define what was meaningful to that organization and they exchange value with currency for what they felt was meaningful. However, you now get to figure out what is meaningful and how you add value. But you also enjoy it, you find it playful. It doesn’t even feel like work. And this is where the discovery has to occur and is often challenging for people.
Gregg Lunceford: And this is where, going back to my earlier comments, you’ve got to figure out what are those non-financial things in your life that you really, really enjoy? Because a lot of people go into retirement and they’re dissatisfied with it because they pick things that they think they ought to do. And what they find is they know how to fill a day, but they don’t know how to do things that are fulfilling to them in a day. And so absent of that meaning and purpose, this can make this a long, long experience that’s not rewarding.
Gregg Lunceford: So I often think back to a business owner and I was having this conversation about retirement and they said, I don’t know that I could do it. I was like, really? And he says, look, we’re in the office five days a week. I’m interacting with my clients, with growing my business. I’m having a lot of fun just watching the fruits of my labor transition into things that benefit me and my family and get me recognition in the community. And then there’s Saturday. Saturday, I run all my personal errands. On Sunday, there’s nothing to do. And I can’t imagine seven Sundays in a row — I would be bored out of my mind. Okay, so it was that recognition that you need to figure out how to have meaningful play almost seven days.
Gloria Grace: And it’s so funny that you mentioned that because I mentioned I have a group, a community called the Soulful Women’s Network. And I was doing some preparation for our monthly meeting and that was the topic — how to put play into your life. Because play has major benefits for you physically, mentally, emotionally, so it is vital to work that into your life. And it can be all sorts of different things. It can be from playing games or sports, or it can be exercise. It could be playing a musical instrument. It could be socializing. It could be volunteering even too, if you find that as something that really does light you up. And I think that’s the important thing — whatever you choose, it has to be something that really lights you up. Right?
Gregg Lunceford: It has to be something to light you up. That’s exactly right.
Why Women Over 50 Are More Empowered Than They Realize
Gloria Grace: We’re starting to run down to the time. But I wanted to ask you two things. And one is going to be off topic, but not exactly. But before that — if a woman over 50 could just take one thing from this podcast today, what would you hope that would be?
Gregg Lunceford: Understanding how empowered you are. And we didn’t get a deep dive into it, but there are a set of skills that I think women bring to the table at this stage that are a little bit stronger. So I think women, because they tend to have multiple identities as they grow in early adulthood and middle age — men tend to be focused on who they are through their career. Women, although they have a strong drive that way, sometimes people exit careers during different paths to be caregivers or they’re involved throughout their career in the extracurricular activities that their children are doing and things like that. So the identity in the community is not just Dr. So-and-so. It is also you are your children’s mom, or you are in the PTA, or whatever it may be. And so when you have developed stronger identity multiple times, making this transition, you’re actually more empowered than the average person.
Gregg Lunceford: So I think one of the things that women should understand is they’re probably — if they’ve had a journey of 50 years and they have done other things and been recognized in other ways, whether it be as a leader in your place of worship or as a community organizer — you’re actually doing better because you’ve built a skill set that is much needed. Figure out how to draw upon that skill set to figure out your third age identity. I think it’s harder oftentimes for men because our identity is so tied to our work. And so this break in identity by a full exit is even harder. Not saying it’s easier on any time, but women tend to have strong resources and abilities they don’t think about that are very rewarding and valuable at this age.
Gloria Grace: And I think that’s the key is that we don’t always think about them or we don’t value them. And that’s why when I came up with something when I wrote my book, it’s an acronym and the V is value your uniqueness. And I know even when I was writing — I had the least amount of information in my rough draft before when I was typing it up — and I’m like, oh, so you’re still not valuing yourself enough, Gloria, are you? And that’s again why I really want women to know that. And thank you for sharing that because it is — we do take on a lot of different roles in our lifetime and that is something to appreciate about ourselves and that we can tap into that. We just have to remember it sometimes.
Gregg Lunceford: I think we forget as well as the ability to advocate for yourself. I think a lot of women develop very strong advocacy skills that are often overlooked. And you know, oftentimes women are underpaid relative to men. But the reality in a lot of professions, the reason men are paid better than women has nothing to do with the male’s ability to advocate for themselves. When you start looking at career paths that are developed, a lot of them men go into — with the exception of women who go into nursing and into teaching — most of these are not recognized by union labor. So yes, you get paid better in certain situations, but a lot of men work in union shops where you go in and you collectively bargain for everyone’s raise at one time versus women tend to be in areas like not-for-profit, where there is nobody bargaining for them. And so they have to learn how to bargain for themselves.
Gregg Lunceford: So you get to this end stage and women tend to have this power that is probably greater than other people have. Because now you’re trying to figure out your third age and you’ve always had to bargain for yourself versus your shop steward doing it for you. Lever that into a powerful third age for yourself. Go out there, try to get that contract work. You probably know how to sell better than the average person.
Gloria Grace: I love it. I hope everyone listening to this today is feeling much more empowered to go out there and make this stage of your life the best one yet. It doesn’t have to be better necessarily, but the best one you can make it. Because you deserve it.
Gregg Lunceford: Absolutely.
Volunteering, Gratitude, and the Gift of Giving Back in the Third Age
Gloria Grace: I know people listening to this are going to want to know more about you, so let me ask about the Juvenile Protective Agency first. I noticed that you are active with them and when I looked them up, I was like, oh, this sounds like a really good organization. Can you tell a little bit about what that is and why you decided to get involved with them?
Gregg Lunceford: So JPA — the acronym we use — we focus on helping young people. We provide, we raise money for them to get free therapy in elementary school. What we find is that there are students whose performance in the classroom is negatively impacted by their experiences with violence. And so what we try to do is get the therapist in at an early elementary age to help them cope, develop the coping skills that they need, the positive reinforcement that they need so that they continue to thrive versus let this be a setback. So this could be, maybe there’s violence in the community or there could be violence in the home, or maybe they have witnessed it but are afraid to talk about something that they’ve seen.
Gregg Lunceford: My interactions with JPA — I’ve always had a passion for kids in education. And so this is in that space and is a way to help kids that may be under-resourced, underperforming, to get the advantages that they need so that they can set the life course as possibly as possible so they can be competitive. What we find at JPA — and this is not just us — a lot of times people go into some of their philanthropic efforts going, oh, that’s just a nice thing to do. I think one thing that helps when you start looking at volunteering time is it’s not that you’re just helping this underserved community, but there is also the value that you bring back. And we view it as the more young students that we help — what we find in corporate America and Chicago is that we need strong entry-level talent that is well trained. And so to the extent you have an early intervention and you can help a student actually complete their educational journey — it is actually better for us as employers because we have a stronger pipeline of leadership that we can develop in the future. So it is a win-win all around. And that is what’s most rewarding is when you start seeing your city thrive, your community thrive, simply from a small seed that you sowed in someone when they were in second or third grade.
Gloria Grace: I love that. And it also benefits you personally when you are doing something for other people. It really does help you with your own, frankly, your own mental health. I know I’ve experienced that.
Gregg Lunceford: So it’s funny you mentioned that. When you start looking at drivers of positive mental health outside of things aided by pharmaceuticals, gratitude is a large driver of that. The thing that makes us feel more certain and more confident about ourselves and our ability to excel in our third age is when we reflect back on the things that we’re grateful for. And helping other people tends to benefit us because it makes us recognize how fortunate we are, even though we may be in some awful situations, because people come from all walks of life. But gratitude is probably one of the bigger things that helps you figure out how to cope as well as figure out your next step.
Gloria Grace: Oh, yeah, we are on the same wavelength there. I am a big believer in gratitude, having a gratitude practice. And yeah, this is so good. I knew it was going to be amazing. You are an amazing gentleman and I’m very grateful.
Connect with Gregg Lunceford & Closing Thoughts
Gloria Grace: Before we wrap up, one last question. Well, two questions. Okay. If a woman over 50 could just take one thing — wait, I already asked that. Let me ask — I know people listening to this are going to want to know more about you. So what is the best way that people can get in touch with you?
Gregg Lunceford: Email me at Gregg.lunceford (at) mesirow.com. That’s my firm. Also, you can find me on LinkedIn. And if you’re interested in some of the things I talked about today, my book, Exit from Work, can be found on Amazon.com.
Gloria Grace: All right, excellent. Well, I’ll be sure and have that information in the show notes. So if you’re listening to this, just go check those out and I’ll have all the links there and people can get in touch with you. And I really, really appreciate you being on the show today. This has been really a great, great experience for me. I’ve learned a lot and I’m sure our audience did as well.
Gregg Lunceford: Thank you for the invitation. I’ve enjoyed our discussion.
Gloria Grace: Well, I want to thank all of you as well for joining me today and make sure that you come back next week because I will have more ideas on how you can embrace this incredible season of life. And be sure to check out the description of this video where you’ll get a full rundown of today’s important links. Share it with a friend on social media and let me know your thoughts in the comments because I’d love hearing from you. And it also helps me figure out how best I can serve and support you in future episodes. So remember, you’re never too old to start a new chapter.
