Join Tania Luna, the co-founder of Life Labs Learning, as she flips the script on leadership. Uncover how managing conditions, not just people, propels individuals to peak performance. Prepare to be inspired!
“Managers should be role sponsors, focusing on creating an environment that allows individuals to thrive and be at their best.” – Tania Luna
Meet Tania Luna, a passionate advocate for turning leadership on its head. She is the co-founder of Life Labs Learning, an organization that has empowered over 350,000 individuals at influential world enterprises, to become more compassionate, skilled, and confident leaders. Her role extends to being a researcher, educator and an advisor to Alt Protein start-ups. Tania understands that the key to successful leadership isn’t in controlling people, rather in creating conditions for individuals to become the best versions of themselves.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Demystify the complex nature of leadership, breaking it down to practical skills.
- Grasp why effective leadership is about crafting environments, not dictating people.
- Cultivate a leadership perspective that views yourself as a designer of circumstances.
- Gain insights on benefits of feedback and development in fostering individual growth.
- Appreciate how leadership skills can be an asset in all walks of life.
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00:00:00 – Gloria Grace Rand
You’re listening to the Live Love Engage podcast. On today’s show, why great leaders need to focus on community building rather than control. Stay tuned.
00:00:14 – Gloria Grace Rand
I am Gloria Grace Rand, founder of The Love Method and author of the number one Amazon bestseller Live Love Engage How to Stop Doubting Your Yourself and Start Being Yourself. In this podcast, we share practical advice from a spiritual perspective on how to live fully, love deeply, and engage authentically so you can create a life and business with more impact, influence, and income. Welcome to Live. Love. Engage.
00:00:49 – Gloria Grace Rand
Namaste. I am so glad to be joining you for another episode of Live Love Engage. And I’ve got a lovely guest who I just can’t wait to get started in our conversation because we’ve already been just having a good time before we even started recording. So I’m going to tell you all about her, and I did not double check to make sure how to pronounce your first name? I’m guessing it’s Tania.
00:01:14 – Tania Luna
Ding, ding, ding.
00:01:16 – Gloria Grace Rand
Okay, good. I just want to make sure Tania Luna. So you know what? I’ll just go ahead and welcome you to Live Love Engage, and then I’ll read your bio. So welcome, Tania.
00:01:24 – Tania Luna
Thank you so much. And I’m already having a great time because you’re one of the few people that got my name right on a first try.
00:01:31 – Gloria Grace Rand
Oh, yeah, okay, good.
00:01:33 – Tania Luna
I answered to all versions of my name.
00:01:35 – Gloria Grace Rand
All right, excellent. Well, anyway, so let me tell you all about this lovely woman. She is the co-founder of Life Labs Learning, and she’s the author of The Leader Lab, Core Skills to Become a Great Manager Faster and co-host of the podcast Talk Psych to Me. And she is also a researcher, an educator, advisor to Alt protein startups, and a partner at Columbia University’s Elab, which is an accelerator for entrepreneurs who increase equity and access in education. And her company, Life Labs Learning, is a real go-to training and employee development company that has helped over 350,000 people at some of the world’s most influential companies, including TED, the TED Talks Folks, Yelp, Tinder, Slack, Reddit, JetBlue, and 2000 plus others. And she’s helped them become more confident, competent, and compassionate leaders. And I know we’re going to be talking a little bit about leadership today on the show, but I always like to well, not always, but I would say 99% of the time, I love to ask our guests to start off with telling us about what your journey is, what got you interested in leadership and really helping others with that to become better leaders.
00:03:02 – Tania Luna
Yeah. Oh, man, I wish I had an honest answer to that question. Like, this thing A happened and then B happened, and then C happened. It’s more like I woke up one day and I’m like, oh, 99% of the things I’m thinking about are people skills. And I really think of leadership skills as skills we need to lead, whether we have formal leadership authority or informal leadership, if you want to get something done, if you want to catalyze change commitment, if you want to help others through interacting with others. I put that in the category of leadership. And really, I just increasingly, the more I studied leaders, the more I worked with leaders, the more I became frustrated by the fact that we seem to act like leadership is this really mysterious thing versus really breaking it down into tangible practice. And once you figure out what are the specific behavioral units and skills of leaders, then it can be very easy to become more effective and to make those skills more accessible to everyone, not just the small number of people at some metaphorical top somewhere. So I can answer your question more biographically if you prefer, but the truth is I just tumbled into it and became more and more passionate. My background is in psychology. I ran a few different businesses and I just saw leadership again and again coming up as both a pain and an opportunity.
00:04:26 – Gloria Grace Rand
Well, I love the honest answer because that is interesting because I think sometimes we do just sort of stumble into something because that’s just what we’re doing. Leadership has become something that’s interesting to me when I became an entrepreneur and having to really think about what does that entail? And yet at the same time well, at one point I was invited to participate in one of these multi author compilation books and it was about leadership. And I started looking at leadership is not just about business. I mean, there’s been opportunities or times in my life where I’ve had to be a leader in all sorts of different parts. I mean, if you have a family, you have to know how to lead your children.
00:05:19 – Tania Luna
All the time. Yeah. So at Life Ops Learning, at my company where we do leadership training, we hear this constantly from managers in particular. They’ll go, oh, it’s the strangest things. We have a workshop on leading effective one on ones. So how do you set up your one-on-one conversations with direct reports with your team to increase engagement? You would think it’s the most work-related topic, but then we have people coming in the following week because we do kind of programmatic learning. It’s not just one and done. And they come back and they go, I set up one on ones with my spouse. Or we’ll lead a feedback skills training. And even within the workshop, they’re supposed to be focusing on work and they’re going, can this work with my kids? Or they’ll come back and they go, I’ve been terrified of having this conversation with my roommate, but I did it, it worked. And it’s been amazing. And I think that’s wonderful because these skills are not in… Our lives are not little boxes, little compartments. You close a drawer and all the stuff from work stays there and all the stuff from home stays there. So it’s wonderful. We think of using the workplace as a laboratory to develop those skills. Every day I come into the workplace, something that can feel like a challenge and a frustration can actually become this wonderful development opportunity for skills that transfer over into every area of life. So absolutely agree with you.
00:06:35 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah. And it’s interesting too, I think, what the last couple of years showed us. And certainly the first year of the pandemic when suddenly work was at home and having to, it’s like yeah, you couldn’t compartmentalize it anymore because it was right in your face and you had to figure out ways to be able to make it all work. Tell me a little bit about, well, let’s see, I’m trying to think where’s the best way to go here? There’s so many different things I want to ask you about.
00:07:04 – Tania Luna
I can also try to talk in shorter sentences so we can cover more ground.
00:07:09 – Gloria Grace Rand
Hey, you’re doing good. I’ve had some people who just keep going and going and going and God bless them. And it’s fine usually because it’s interesting, but it’s like once in a while I would like to get a word in edgewise. So you’re doing well. I want to ask you, one of the things that when I was doing research about you and getting ready for this interview is you talk about something that you believe like great leaders should create conditions that bring out the very best in people. So I guess maybe start off with a little bit about, well, I guess we kind of know why that’s important, but then maybe give some ideas about how people, how that can be accomplished.
00:07:53 – Tania Luna
I can see that. I think that you’re right that we should know that that’s important. I would argue, though, that so often when we go in and we do workshops with companies and we go, what is the role description of your managers? And they go, what do you mean? And we go, well, what’s the purpose of your managers? And they go to manage. And we’re like, yeah, but how do you know they’re doing a good job? So actually, if you’re listening and you have an organization that has managers or leaders, actually it turns out it’s incredibly useful to just go, here is how we define this role. And all too often, even today, people say, oh, I’m supposed to manage people. I don’t know about you, but I have never enjoyed being managed. And most people we talk to, I would go back to your 99%, I don’t have these exact statistics, but every time we’ve talked to someone and said, what are some of the worst experiences you have at work? So often people talk about this experience of being controlled and contained and managed. So particularly if you are in an industry or in a company where you want people to think for themselves and bring those human qualities that require passion and commitment and engagement. It’s really managers are not managing people. Management is a synonym for control. So then the question becomes, what the heck do managers do if they’re no longer watching people and going, yep, you did that wrong.
00:09:13 – Tania Luna
Yep, do this thing differently. Or here are the exact deliverables in this exact period of time. What we’ve learned at Life Labs Learning, and for the book The Leader Lab, this is one of the things that we talk about is our research. And looking at managers these days who are unusually effective, what are they doing that’s different when we compare them to average and even their mindset? Now, I could talk all day, slash all podcast long about their specific behaviors, but even the mindset starts at, I don’t manage people, I manage conditions. And so what that looks like is not asking, how do I get this person to do what I want, but how do I use the power that I have because of my role or because of my influence to create an environment that allows this individual on my team to be at their best? And so sometimes that means working with the individual to say, hey, how do you enjoy getting feedback? What’s most useful to you? Or what tools and resources do you need? Or who can I connect you with that would help you learn and help you figure out the solution to this problem? So it’s almost like they’re constantly thinking about what’s around the individual versus what is in the individual. So it’s not, how do I motivate them? How do I make them produce? Instead, it’s what can I do to help them feel the natural engagement that humans have? What do I do to make sure that I remove obstacles that I have the power to remove that would allow them to feel those very natural human feelings instead of, like, forcing some kind of emotion into them?
00:10:47 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, and as you were talking about this, I’m thinking, I feel like we need a different word. And to maybe get rid of the word manager. I don’t know. I’m thinking solutioner, but that doesn’t really sound good.
00:11:00 – Tania Luna
My company at Life Labs Learning, it’s ironic because we teach manager training, but we don’t use the term manager. We use the term project manager for managing projects because we feel like that’s fine. We use what we call role sponsor. So I’m an individual who sponsors you and your role. And my job is both to assess and to essentially to be a sponsor of your success. So I’m looking out for you. I’m asking you what you need. I’m giving you feedback. I’m there to coach and ask questions and help you essentially almost be like a coach or an athlete.
00:11:33 – Gloria Grace Rand
Or a mentor even too,
00:11:38 – Tania Luna
Yeah, the only reason we didn’t go with mentor is in many cases a manager or role sponsor, whatever you call them, they might not have knowledge to pass on. In fact, the individual might even be more of an expert than the manager. So very often I agree with you. Sometimes the manager is also a mentor. But often you could be a phenomenal manager, especially if you have a small company. And maybe you’ve hired people who are bigger experts than you are in some domain. You can still be really effective as a coach, as someone who says, hey, I don’t know the answers, but I’m here and I’m going to help you think better and think more clearly and think more creatively so that you come up with the answer.
00:12:16 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, because I know especially for when solo entrepreneurs start hiring people and start getting people. You oftentimes and I’ve taught this and I’ve heard other people say is, you want to be able to build a team with people who are really good at doing the stuff that you either don’t have time for or the stuff that you don’t like to do, or, frankly, the stuff that you’re not good at. And so you get people. So then, yeah, you’re not necessarily mentoring them at that point because they can probably be educating you on the best ways to do things, but you still have a role in saying, okay, yes, I like that, but we also do need to have this done by X date or something like that.
00:12:58 – Tania Luna
Yeah. It’s almost like going back to your question of why do we want to manage conditions to bring out the best in people or whatever words you want to use there. Going back to what is the purpose of a manager? I think of managers as multipliers. If I am doing my job well in that role, then the individuals that I am supporting, sponsoring, whatever verb we pick in our kind of emerging future of work, if I’m doing a good job, then they should be able to do so much more and produce much better results than they could if I wasn’t there. So I’m kind of like a catalyst of their effectiveness. And maybe sometimes that means mentoring and giving them knowledge they don’t have. Maybe sometimes that means coaching, which is helping them figure out their own insights. Maybe sometimes that means introducing them to someone else who can help them in ways that I can’t.
00:13:49 – Gloria Grace Rand
Right. Yeah. I love that. This is so good. So let me follow up now with that and talk about, you also talk about the importance of building community within a team. So why do you think great leaders need to do that?
00:14:07 – Tania Luna
I think this goes hand in hand with what I was talking about before, about how manage is ultimately a synonym for control. And still so often, even though I think that kind of the ethos is changing, the paradigm is changing, we still tend to err on the side of control when it comes to leadership. We try to, we hold people accountable and make sure that we’re delegating correctly. And not that that stuff is bad, but if all you’re doing is going, I know what I want you to do, and I’m going to make you do it really well, and then I’m going to make sure that you did it. It’s a very kind of one-sided relationship. It goes from up to down. Again, what we’re seeing within managers that are highly effective, teams that are incredibly resilient, incredibly responsive to all of the nonsense that’s going out in the world, they don’t function that way. They function much more as not a control system, but a community system. What I mean by that is these are places where, let’s say they were in person and they were standing together. You wouldn’t be able to tell who has formal authority and who doesn’t. That’s just kind of a visual marker. But then when you start noticing what they’re behaviorally doing, you’re noticing equal turns taking in conversation. You’re noticing that decision making isn’t clustered within one or two people, but people who are closest to the work are making decisions, or at least everyone’s adding input to the decision. And there’s a true sense of there is something bigger than the person that we’re following. There’s a purpose that we’re following. And I like to say follow a purpose, not a person. You’re coming together with a shared goal and you’re interdependent. You’re relying on each other. It’s not me as a leader saying, person A, do this, person B, do this, person A and B, don’t fight. That’s very linear. But instead, if you create this ecosystem where everyone is looking out for each other and everyone is accountable to the purpose, then these amazing things start to happen where everyone cares ultimately about our results. And so the ideas are better, the engagement is higher, the energy is higher, and people are willing to take more risks. People are willing to learn much more quickly because they feel a part of something. I always like to think we don’t feel like we own something unless we’ve taken part in building it. There’s something called the Ikea effect, which shows that if you give people in this study, you give them some furniture to build in one group and then another group, you just show them that furniture prebuilt, and then you go, how much are you willing to pay for this furniture? The people who have built the furniture themselves, who put in more work, are willing to pay significantly more for that very same furniture. And it’s the same thing in the workplace and in other organizations. If we’re part of it, then we feel a sense of belonging and a commitment to it.
00:17:01 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because you really have that ownership of it because you’re doing everything or you’re participating with everybody and working together to have it turn out. And that’s a wonderful thing. And really, I think, such a good thing to aim for, to have a feeling so that everybody is happy because there’s so much there’s been within the last year. It’s like all this thing what is it? People are quitting.
00:17:31 – Tania Luna
The quiet quitting.
00:17:33 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah. The quiet quitting. And it’s like, okay, these managers need to get a grip. And it’s really, I think, starting from the top, it’s from the top down I think.
00:17:43 – Tania Luna
I feel horrible for the managers in these roles because there’s so much pressure. You have to be a therapist and a coach and a mentor, and you’re getting pressure on all sides. And that goes back to the fact that I don’t believe that companies take the skill seriously enough. They go, oh you’ll figure it out. People don’t just figure it out. It’s really hard to learn from experience. In fact, we don’t see a correlation between years of experience in management and effectiveness in management, because you can spend 20 years just doing a really bad job and practicing until those really bad habits are very well ingrained. So really treating it as a high stakes’ skill, like flying a plane or doing surgery, I think that’s what our companies need. Frankly, it’s what our society needs.
00:18:32 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, I agree with that for sure. What is a, and you probably already touched on this a little bit, but what is a commonly held belief about leadership that you passionately disagree with?
00:18:47 – Tania Luna
So many, I don’t even know where to start. I think probably I’ll pick just the first one that’s coming to my mind. This isn’t necessarily the one that I disagree with the most, but the fact that if you are getting well, okay, I already talked about the experience one. Can I dig deeper into that one, why is it such a bad one? Okay, fine. It is such an exciting question that my brain kind of imploded for a moment, and I’m like, okay, I’ll talk more about experience. So this belief that, all right, I can learn it on the job, and usually what ends up happening is managers are promoted into that role because they’re quite good at what they do. They’re delivering really great results. They’re very skilled. Let’s say I’m doing sales, and then our company is growing, or our team is growing, and I go, oh, I’m going to take this person who’s great at sales. Obviously, that also means they’re going to be great at being a manager. So that’s kind of common mistaken belief. Number one.
Gloria Grace Rand
Don’t do that. There’s limited overlap in those skills. It’s the same as saying, oh, you’re great at sales, you’ll be fantastic at basketball, or you’ll be an amazing ballet dancer. That’s one. But then the second one is to go, you’ll figure it out on the job. On the job learning. There’s often this thing that’s quoted that we learn 70% through experience, 30% through practice, and 10% through reading, or like knowledge king or something like that. And people think about this all the time, but it comes from a study, one study with a very small sample with a very particular group of executives. And all they did was they took a guess and said here’s how I think I learned. And I hear it quoted over and over and over. It doesn’t mean that that’s how you should be learning. Of course you need on the job experience, but you also need on the job experience as a surgeon. That doesn’t mean that you should start doing surgery without getting guidance and support. And I don’t even mean that it has to be formal training like what we do, even making sure that as the person joins that role that they’re given clarity around what is it and what are some best practices and what are some pitfalls that you should avoid. For example, don’t start off your relationships by just telling everyone what they’re doing wrong or if people are doing things wrong, don’t avoid having those conversations about it. This sounds very simple, but people don’t know how to have those types of conversations and so equipping them with those skills. On the job learning, it doesn’t work because the feedback loop is too slow. I did something today and someone quit six months from now. I have no idea what I did wrong. So having, I guess number one, clarity around what is expected of this role and what skills are required. So you’re not just taking some random person who’s good at their job and sticking them in the role and then having a more kind of deliberate skill based onboarding and development program.
00:21:54 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, and that is such good advice, because I know when I first worked with when I first hired my first virtual assistant to help with my business, I did not really put together a clear plan, frankly, of anything, and then even of when to be able to reach out to me or to have a set schedule and things like that. And it was a disaster. I was unhappy and I’m sure she was and it was a messed up relationship. So the next time I went and I had found now I think I took maybe learned from somebody else, took some webinar about how to hire people, what you should do. And it was like, okay, so I put together a list of things that this is what I would like to have done and I would like to be able to talk on Fridays to kind of go over what got done during the week and things like that. And setting expectations is so important.
00:22:54 – Gloria Grace Rand
And it makes sense because now when I think about it, I think even when back when I was first in the working world, as opposed to running my own business, when I was an employee, there were like employee handbooks of things that to do or to give you some ideas. And it’s so important to be able to put things together like that so people have an idea. I want to ask you one question. So let’s say there’s someone out there. Maybe they are working for an organization. Maybe they’re not an entrepreneur. Because I’m not going to necessarily assume that everybody who listens to the show is that and now they’ve been put in a position of leadership and they’re like, I haven’t a clue what to do. What would you recommend to them to do to be kind of like those first kind of, first steps?
00:23:41 – Tania Luna
Well, first of all, if you’re asking yourself that question, then chances are you’re probably already better at leadership than average. And I’m not even kidding because some of the absolute best leaders that we teach are the ones where we’re like, you don’t need us. You’re fine. You don’t have to be perfect. We’re wasting our time on you. We should be working with the people who think they’re great, but they’re actually making mistakes left and right. So if you’ve got that insecurity, that’s a wonderful sign. I’m mostly kidding. Of course we can all get better and the skills are out there, and you should get them, but that’s already a really good sign. You could buy our book. It’s called The Leader Lab or get it at the library. But I would say number one is do what we call a listening tour. So this is essentially a road trip across your company. Could be a virtual road trip where you speak to the individuals who you will be collaborating with, including your manager, including your team, including maybe frequent collaborators, and you ask them a few questions. So it could be something like, hey, what do you expect of me in this role? How would success look to you? When you’ve worked with others in the past, other managers, what’s worked really well? What have been some of the pitfalls that you would want to avoid? So I think of those kind of like reflection questions, and then ideally, you also ask exploration or moving forward questions. So things like if we ever have a question for each other or conflict in how we’re working together, how do you want to address that? To the point that you made earlier with your executive assistant. Hey, how should we set up kind of checkpoints before something even goes wrong so that we can consistently help each other with feedback, with alignment, things like that. That’s one of the best things you can do is really start by kind of extracting out people’s expectations. I think Shakespeare is, this quote is attributed to Shakespeare. I don’t know if he really said it or not, but expectation is the root of all suffering. So really avoiding that suffering by getting the expectations up front. So that’s number one. Number two is I would really recommend starting to think about, okay, what are my strengths as a manager and where are my gaps so that I can build on my strengths and so that I could develop those tools and muscles around areas that I’m weakest in. The most important skills we found in our research at Life Labs Learning for managers are number one, coaching skills. So that’s being able to help people come to solutions on their own by asking really thoughtful questions. Number two, feedback. Number three, kind of a combo of productivity and prioritization. But really, I would say most important is prioritization. Do I know what’s most important to do? And can I get myself and my team to focus on what’s most important? Number four, and there are eight total. Number four is holding effective one on ones. Then number five, strategic thinking. Meetings, facilitation, leading change and developing people, helping them develop new skills. So of those eight, I would say if you’re not feeling super solid on coaching feedback and prioritization, forget about all the other ones, just focus on those three. We call them tipping point skills because when you’re really solid in those, you notice that they tip over into so many other domains. If I’m really good at coaching, I’m going to be better at problem solving, at creativity, at influence. If I’m good at feedback, I’m better at conflict. Conflict negotiation, delegation, things like that. So coaching feedback, prioritization, start there. And when in doubt, ask your team for feedback. It’s a continuous process in the same way as if you were learning to play the piano. You can’t play the piano without knowing if you’re hitting the right notes. So use your team as your ear, so to speak, as the analogy in playing piano and say, hey, I did this thing. How’s it going?
00:27:16 – Gloria Grace Rand
Yeah, absolutely. That’s so great. I really appreciate you sharing all those wonderful tips because I think that’s going to be so useful because I know I would have loved to have had that knowledge a few years back. So it’s so great. Want to ask you one last question because I just love the answers that I get from my guests. So what are you curious about right now?
00:27:41 – Tania Luna
Okay, can I say two things?
00:27:45 – Gloria Grace Rand
00:27:48 – Tania Luna
Okay, I will say so I’ve just finished writing my next book, which comes out in September, and it’s called Power With, which is a framework on sharing power by Mary Parker Follett, who is this amazing business and sort of life theorist who did a lot of work in the 1920s. And her work has really largely been lost. So anyway, so I think constantly about power and sharing power and what is kind of to the, to the point I was making before about building community. But I’ve been thinking a lot about, what does that look like and what are all the different places that that can show up not just at work, but in everyday life. And then related to that, I’ve been thinking about how do we find that balance between giving people the right amount of freedom. So when it comes to giving power, you give people autonomy, you give people options, you give people choice, and that’s exhilarating, and it’s exciting and it’s motivating, but it can also be very overwhelming and scary. And I’ve been reading a lot about existential philosophy around this dread that we can feel when we have too many options. If you’re an entrepreneur listening, I’m sure you’ve experienced some of this where you’re like, oh, my gosh, all the options, all the freedom, all the power. So I’ve been thinking about how do we find that right balance in giving power, increasing people’s power, and also helping people not become too overwhelmed in the overabundance of freedom.
00:29:16 – Gloria Grace Rand
Wow. I can’t wait to learn more about that book, because that sounds like that’s something that is so timely right now that we need to understand more, because I’m just thinking of just, like, in the United States with just politics. As I’m recording this, we still don’t have a Speaker of the House because they’ve been spending four days trying to establish this other group wants more power. This other group is like, well, and.
00:29:44 – Tania Luna
The big paradox of it is if you cling on to power too tightly, it actually ends up draining power from the very individuals who are holding on to it. And power is this really fascinating thing where when you share it, it grows for everyone. It’s not about like, I have a piece of food, and it’s a choice of whether I eat more and don’t share or I eat less and I do share it. Power doesn’t work that way. I share it, and we both get more power if we do it effectively. So, yes, I’m with you. It’s a very exciting and important topic, and I hope to do it some justice.
00:30:19 – Gloria Grace Rand
I’m sure you will. I’m sure you will. We could talk forever, I can tell. So this has been wonderful, and I’ve enjoyed it so much, and I know our listeners have gotten value out of it as well as those watching on YouTube. So I’ll ask you this one last thing. Is there anything else that I should have asked you that I didn’t? Any other last point you want to make before we wrap up.
00:30:40 – Tania Luna
My favorite name of my 21 animals that I live with, if you want to know?
00:30:54 – Gloria Grace Rand
Sure, we’ll do that.
00:30:57 – Tania Luna
All right. I don’t know why I asked that question, because now I’m like, I don’t know. Probably our first pig that we adopted. Her name is the Outlaw Josie Mysterio Luna. And if anyone is listening and interested in adopting a pig, the Pig Placement Network has a national network of pigs looking for homes. Oh, my goodness.
00:31:21 – Gloria Grace Rand
Wow. Okay. I did not know that there was a National Pig Placement Network. Cool. I’ll find the resource I’ll put in the show notes because what the heck?
00:31:32 – Tania Luna
You never know. Thank you so much.
00:31:38 – Gloria Grace Rand
Absolutely. Well, cool. Now, if someone is wanting to learn more about what you guys do, what you do at your company, and maybe get the book or whatnot? What’s the best place for people to contact you?
00:31:48 – Tania Luna
Yes, if you’re interested in something other than pigs. So the book is called The Leader Lab – Core Skills to Become a Great Manager Faster. It’s available where books hang out. Our company is called Lifelabslearning.com. We do live, virtual and in person training. And if you’re interested in the Power With book, you can sign up for updates on my website, which is Tania T-A-N-I-A. Luna. L-u-n-a.com.
00:32:18 – Gloria Grace Rand
All right, excellent. Well, I will have that in the show notes and it’s very possible that oh, whatever. I’m sure it probably will be out very close to it by the time that this sees air, so you’ll be able to get it then. But anyway, I’m so grateful that we’ve connected and this was a wonderful conversation and I’m really glad to share you with my listeners and viewers today. So thank you so much.
00:32:45 – Tania Luna
I’m grateful to be shared. You’re sharing your power.
00:32:49 – Gloria Grace Rand
There we go. Excellent. And I do, as always, want to thank all of you for watching and for listening. And I really do appreciate you, because if I wasn’t continuing to get subscribers, I’d probably quit doing it. But thankfully, I still have people who are listening and so that encourages me to keep going. So if you did get value out of today’s episode, please do share it with a friend. Make sure that you’re subscribed on the YouTube channel or on Apple. And, yeah, I think that’s probably going to do it for me. So until next time, as always, I encourage you to go out and live fully, love deeply, and engage authentically.
00:33:30 – Gloria Grace Rand
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